Why wont die hard GAA fans admit football these days is muck?

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325537#Comment_122325537

A two pointer rule would pulls defences out further giving the attacking team the option of attempting the shot, taking on an isolated defender or playing over the top in the space created between the perimeter and the goal defenders. You'd also have competent distance shooters camped on the two point line occupying defenders leaving more space at the goal.

It's basically becoming field basketball at that stage but at least it improves the spectacle.

Davys Fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326216#Comment_122326216

Handpasses are the reason we have a possession game thats so easy to maintain. I don't see how it adds anything in terms of speed. In fact its probably why the game is so laboured at times.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326773#Comment_122326773

I don't see handpassing ever been opted out from the game. Maybe limit number of passes in a row.

Although wasn't that tried before? Like about 50 other rules ha.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326638#Comment_122326638

I have seen Ciaran kilkenny do the same this year, a man very capable to kicking it over, sure I was kicking them kind of shots over at under 16 level and I wasn't a multi all Ireland winner like he is.

intellectual dosser

Some of these rule changes themselves will make it unwatchable. I’d rather see how teams evolve over time than see the rulebook chopped up into a game none of us recognise.

However, is there anything to be said for reducing the number of players on a team? 13 a side would create more space that could encourage kick passing and longer range shooting.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326984#Comment_122326984

So is your contention that Ciaran Kilkenny is not as good as the players of yesteryear?

WesternZulu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327441#Comment_122327441

I used to think that the game would evolve and didn’t need intervention but it’s clear to see that rule changes badly need to be made.

The game is already unrecognisable to the sport it was even as recently as the 90’s and 00’s.

intellectual dosser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327450#Comment_122327450

Defining the problem that needs to be fixed is going to be an issue.

It’s not scoring. 6 of the 8 Quarter Finalists this past weekend put up 15 points or more. I haven’t done any analysis but I’d imagine that compares reasonably with past Championships.

Slow build up play and moving backwards? It’s not pleasant viewing but it’s what teams choose to do. I don’t know how you counter it with rule changes without creating one or two new viewing miseries. Is it really worth making significant changes to the game?

WesternZulu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327489#Comment_122327489

I don’t think any of the proposed changes could conceivably make the game any worse.

Doesn’t that say it all.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327446#Comment_122327446

No because he is a player of both now and the past when football was entertaining to watch. also he didnt kick it short into the goalkeepers hands, he was too afraid to shoot because presumably he was told not to shoot unless it was a guaranteed score.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327548#Comment_122327548

So it’s context then, rather than player skill?

Feisar

Non GAA man here so take this with a pinch of whatever.

Like a lot of field sports I assume they grew from kids games, rules were formalized and we get the games we have today be it gaelic, soccer, rugby, aussie rules? etc. Did the original creators who formalized the rules ever think they'd become the sports we have today, analysed to the nth degrees, I doubt it. So how does a game remain "pure" and keep up with modern stat analysis and also the fitness levels of todays top players? As an aside I always found it funny that football and hurley while drastically different sports follow the same format, fifteen aside, and a goal is worth three points. IMVHO to beat the stats they'd need to split the pitch up into coloured zones. Lets say a player is only allowed shoot when they have a 90% success rate. Well to shoot from a 45% success rate distance they need 2 points and from a 30% 3 points. I can't think of any other way to break the stats style play. Basically, if you can't beat them, join them.

LuckyLloyd

hurling will never have the same issues because at any time a top player will ping it over the bar from 60 metres out, if given time.

Dont Be at It

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326984#Comment_122326984

Funny that you say it... He's the first player comes to mind regarding this phenomenon. He had a pretty decent chance to get a point away, to level the game, in injury time. Instead of going for it he turned back around and recycled back out the pitch.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327799#Comment_122327799

it was a different game I saw him do it this year. not the Galway game. pity as he is well able to kick them over.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327673#Comment_122327673

As has been noted on the thread, players are far more likely to get a wide from further out, or worse still play it to the keeper. This is not a modern phenomenon, it was always the same. Many of the points in the good old days were from 13 Yard frees. I long ago learned never to cheer for a ball from far out that seemed destined to go over the bar, only to tail away left or right at the end, or turn out to be short. Only cheer when it goes over the bar.

The report from the "sandbox" game in Mullingar, confirms that giving 2 points for a shot over the bar from far out, did not increase the success rate. It will fail as an idea. Because the percentage thing as the saying goes is to engineer points from closer in. It's working well in general, with many games having over 30 scores. There were 42 scores in the Donegal Louth game. Shortage of scores is not a problem in the modern game. And to repeat, offering 2 points for a successful shot from further out will fail as an idea.

Dont Be at It

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122328466#Comment_122328466

I agree that some games have lots of scores but it's the nature of the scores in a lot of the games involving the top teams. They're all the same.. Handpassing the ball over and back, runners off shoulders, trying to get the ball into the 'scoring zone' to the one or two forwards that can actually score. And the scoring zone seems be getting smaller every year.

I think a big problem with any rule change is the fact that top level intercounty football is almost a different sport to the club game now. Anything involving x numbers of players in the half of the pitch, or two refs, etc is a non runner at club level.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122328466#Comment_122328466

As someone else said goalkeepers never took frees, now its very common. so if you get 2 points for a shot from far out, do you not think teams would practice this skill and became very good at it? I think they will.

homewardbound11

In my opinion .
gaelic evolved on soccer professionalism .
Soccer is no where as fun as it was 30 years ago as every team are technically hard to penetrate. For that I’d do the following .

-) once possession is brought past the half way it can not be recycled back again into your own half . This is monitored by the ref .
Promotes turn overs .
-) keepers not allowed outside the 21.
-) 3 forwards and 3 backs must remain in their own half at all times . This allows for more space in attack . A difficult one but should be monitored by both lines men .
-) a second referee for each half of the pitch .
-) persistent off the ball fouling or persistent fouling in order to break down a counter attack results in a 21 yard free .
-) players faking head injuries in order to stop the game . It’s getting so much like soccer . If a player goes down holding his head then he must leave the pitch for assessment . Referees desecration on when to let him back on .

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122328466#Comment_122328466

After the Gaa itself , the commentators, the pundits , and most of all the general public all agreeing that

the weekends game were, apart from one half of play, tedious and boring, you come up with this !

King Canute is alive and well.

Our game is on a terminal slide if this continues, its glaringly obvious, yet the clipboard merchants won't

relinquish their death hold on our game. The number of 'scores' in a game is no indication of how 'good' a game is

You can have two teams shunting up and down the field via hand passes for the 70 mins at walking pace and then

scoring points via the hand from 5 metres

Time is running out and action needed…….and fast.

Dont Be at It

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122328869#Comment_122328869

I'd be thinking the same. Teams and players will focus on where the reward is. The size of players these days... Shouldn't be a bother having the length from 40m

dxhound2005

At least the game on the field continues at present uninterrupted excepted by fouls or when the ball goes out of play. In the logical copy of soccer, which players and coaches adopted to ensure more possession and scores. Everyone can be a defender or an attacker as required, including the goalkeeper.

All these new ideas are designed to make players do things which will not come naturally. Like staying in certain places on the pitch, or not being able to pass the ball in certain ways. The players already rejected the unnatural restriction on the number of handpasses. Anything which needs an extra referee is a non starter. Even the best qualified referees are condemned regularly for being useless. Often on the GAA forum here. Where are twice as many better qualified referees supposed to come from?

Two ideas I do agree with. The disappearing foam from soccer, and the tap and go free from rugby. And any stronger support for referees and other officials to make players behave more like in rugby rather than soccer. The GAA referees already have more power than in soccer by being able to move the ball forward for frees. This should be used more often to cut out the abuse on the field.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324675#Comment_122324675

Getting rid of the preliminary QF would rank up the pressure in the groups from the off. As it is, you could lose two games and draw the other, and still go through. That would suck the life out of any championship in any sport.

Forcing teams to actually having to go and win at least one game to progress surely couldn't be a worse endeavour. And who knows, it might even be a way to change the mentality in the game as well given managers would have come up with plans to win rather than plans to contain.

Now, it may mean a couple of dead rubbers after two rounds, but dead rubbers are better than the dead-feeling round robin we have now.

And as someone else pointed out, part of the problem with the QF's was the atmosphere in Croke Park, it's too big. How about as a reward for, and an encouragement to go out and win games, the team that tops the group gets a home QF? Massive incentive, and likely a more vocal atmosphere for a QF in a home ground.

Football is a great sport and engagingly entertaining when the two teams are focused on going for the win, whenever we've had that on display we've usually had a great game. However, pure negativity seems to be the order of the day. So football probably does need some rule changes to encourage attacking football. But just a handful of tweaks would breathe life into the championship itself outside of the way the game is played, a poor structure is never going light a fire in people.

randd1

Where has the art of kicking the ball when running directly at goal gone?

Remember when a lad was running towards goal and about 40 yards out and he'd just leather it on the side of his foot towards the far post and let the curl take it over.

Are players coached to not take shots outside of 30 yards anymore? Even at that, they'd still recycle it.

PS - Where have the mavericks gone? Wouldn't you just love to see a lad being forced out away from goal around the 21 do a bicycle kick and let it fly up in the air and over the bar from 25 yards. Or drop the ball in around the 14 yard line for an attacker to jump and swing a fist at it and let it fly over his head and over the bar. Fanciful and highly unlikely yes, but the game seem devoid of off the cuff moments of madness like that.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122329199#Comment_122329199

The reason that there was no 'atmosphere' in Croke Park and in other venues too is not that they are too big but that the action on the field of play is abysmal.

When you have long periods of nothing happening but players shunting up and down the field slowly, hand passing the ball backwards and sideways and the other team just gathering in their own half out come the phones and there is more interest in their content than the game.

The attraction of games is uncertainty and chaos coupled with skill and effort, not trying anything till its a near certainty to succeed makes for boring football as was well proved on Sunday.

Gaa need to wake up fast before the game sinks into a sludge of monotony which will drive paying spectators away.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122329275#Comment_122329275

I know of substitutes being handed a piece of paper before entering the field with '' don't shoot '' written on them. Only certain players allowed to shoot and only from certain areas. The flair and natural ability of players is being taken out of the game.

dxhound2005

Apparently Peter Canavan was complaining that teams have designated shooters, who need to stay close to the goals. He was the designated shooter for Tyrone, making him top scorer in Ulster three years in a row. Conor McManus was the same for Monaghan, he did it four years in a row.

It is nothing new in football, and top scoring forwards used to be heroes of the game instead of now being accused of ruining it. I don't remember Canavan wandering out the field too much to take pot shots from 40 metres.

Dogsdodogsstuff

I miss 14 outfield players marking each other , long kickouts and strong midfielders gloriously competing for every kickout. I really dislike this 29 players within the 40 yard line crap and roaming keepers.

Not saying all the rules should be changed , I just really dislike how the game has evolved. One of the enjoyments of the game was individual battles and quite often you did feel like you could win a game on any given day.

Games seem to be pure tactic driven, no individual quality or spontaneity as much cause you know exactly what’s gonna happen. That team will score a point and everybody will drop back to defend or maybe push up for a kick out.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122329626#Comment_122329626

Exactly, and very little will change unless the GAA clear the clipboard merchants off the backroom teams.

Lets hope Jarlath has the drive and will to drag Gaelic football out of the malaise it now wallows in.

Treble double

The question is what kind of a spectacle do people want Gaelic Football to be, I think the answer will change depending on the generation of the person. The one thing that has changed the game massively is the increasing amount of time going into preparing teams it is now proffesional in all but name. So therefore if the desire is for the game to go back to a more random, free for all type of a contest a limit will have to be imposed on the amount of time teams are allowed to train and prepare and this will have to be strictly enforced. If you want football akin to the nineties teams will have to be only allowed train for an hour and a half twice a week and only once on weekends if there isn't a match. This will ensure there isn't time for video analysis and long meetings where elaborate tactical plans are hatched and learned. Whatever changes are brought in by Gavin etc al will be circumvented by coaches over time given enough access to players. If we want a truly amateur harem scarem random game the only way to do it is by strictly enforcing a limit on time inter county teams are allowed to prepare. Good luck with that, as Eddie O Sullivan say you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. One rule that might change the face of the inter county game is to limit players to one hop and one solo, but that is never going to happen. I think we just have to accept modern sport is one of control and not randomness