Why wont die hard GAA fans admit football these days is muck?

dxhound2005

They can play any style they like. That is the beauty of the rules. Any player including goalkeepers can go to any area of the pitch. They can kick pass or hand pass. Nobody is forcing them to play Possession, it is just the natural thing to do to win games.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400300#Comment_122400300

Presumably managers and coaches are forcing them to play possession?

Anyway, players playing "possession" isn't the issue. People passing the ball to each other is hardly revolutionary. The issue is massed defences in front of goal which leads to pointless 'going around in circles' retention of possession.

That is a hard watch for anyone especially when it involves teams without the wherewithal to break down such a defence.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400359#Comment_122400359

It won't be an "issue" for whoever wins the All Ireland. Fans included.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400385#Comment_122400385

Indeed. Not sure that's the most enlightened way to consider the sport and its future though.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400385#Comment_122400385

The two teams in the final are as entertaining as any in the present time, their 2022 game was regarded as the best of the season. These two teams are not killing football, but less able teams are.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122399862#Comment_122399862

Still coming up with the same auld rubbish.

The President of the GAA thinks it needs attention, so much so a high powered team have been set up to

Examine changes that might make the game more watchable.

The pundits say it, the commentators say is, a huge percentage of fans say it.

And here you are trying to ignore all that.

Take a look at yourself my friend.

dxhound2005

The big idea on this thread is that the game needs more occasions of contests for possession. In other words back to Catch and Kick, and players staying in designated areas of the field.

Not going to happen, when there is long term proof that keeping possession by whatever means, is the logical way to engineer more scores. Especially cruel is the attempt to shame goalkeepers into not taking a full part in the play when they see the need.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401726#Comment_122401726

Your second paragraph seems to assume nothing can ever change. The obsessive retention and recycling of possession is advantageous only because the way the sport has developed facilitates it. Why would someone kick a football into an areas where a massed defence means their offensive players are outnumbered? Keeping possession is not the major cerebral breakthrough you suggesting. It's just a logical reaction to massed defences. Take that out and suddenly two guys handpassing the ball to each other 100 metres from opposing goals might look a bit pointless. You just never know.

If the rules change to impact on constant possession retention and make it less advantageous players and coaches will have to adapt. Rules have always followed 'problems' in sports which needed to be addressed. If at some point a decision is taken to restrict players to certain areas of the pitch then you can be quite confident players will adapt because they'll get no advantage from not doing so.

Rugby has adapted rules to prevent the ball being smothered and possession retained endlessly. Likewise, goalkeepers in GAA presumably feel no shame in having specific rules to protect them and their area. Why should they feel shame if they are not being facilitated to play in the forwards as well? Soccer goalkeepers cannot have the ball passed to them by foot in the manner of every other player. Outfield players do not expect a turn in goals and are shameless about that.

Changes have happened down the years in various sports and the sky hasn't fallen in. Not everyone likes change but there's no reason to assume it can't happen.

dxhound2005

Whatever changes happen will happen naturally. Just like the ban on soccer keepers handling backpasses developed them into having equal footballing skills to the outfield players. They take part in intricate moves near the goals to defeat the "high press". In the old days they just hoofed to ball up the field. Gaelic already outlaws the player receiving the kick out from passing back to the keeper. That is enough.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401817#Comment_122401817

It is a rules' based game. Changes happen primarily because rules dictate the response (at least successful ones do).

Your belief that goalkeepers in soccer had no skills with a ball at their feet prior to the passback being banned but now are as good as outfield players is an unwitting admission of the power of a rule change. There was nothing remotely 'natural' about that development. It happened as a response to rule changes.

I just don't get "that is enough" about rule changes. No need to fear rule changes.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400083#Comment_122400083

I have talked to lots of lads who play football now, these lads would only ever know the defensive football, 30 players in one half football and most of them tell me they dont enjoy playing and they think there is something wrong with them game. when I played I never felt like that, I always enjoyed the game, otherwise I would have quit playing.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122402256#Comment_122402256

pg, these dudes see the writing on the wall.

The clipboard and stats merchants cannot turn back the tide and lose their nice little numbers.

They know the game is up when from the top down it’s accepted that GF as it’s played right now

is a painfull watch in most cases.

Well done Jarlath fo spotting the disease in our game and wresting it from the clipboard merchants.

dxhound2005

Back in 2017 Jarlath stated his opposition to going back to mandatory old style kickouts to midfield. He is happy with the 20 metre rule, which facilitates the playing out from the back copied from soccer. Sometimes the opposition will take up field positions to make the short kick out more difficult, other times they will allow it unimpeded. Same in both sports and entirely logical.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/1001/908882-jarlath-burns-kickout/

Neither is he convinced that the Committee needs to make wholesale changes to the current rules. But he will let them do whatever they will. They won't be able to force the players to do stuff that they don't want to do. His expectation that the game will develop organically, matches my own. His fellow Armagh man Kieran McGeeney is also another stout defender of the way the game is played now.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0223/1434012-attractive-football-a-goal-for-new-gaa-president-burns/

However, he said he was keen not to pre-empt the research and potential findings of the new football review group.

"I think that what will emerge from this, nothing might emerge from it. They might decide (to) allow the game to change organically and it will come back to what it is," Burns continued.

"But there are many things that people disagree with. I personally like the idea of bringing the goalkeeper into the play and one of the dividends of that has been whenever you're picking a team now at under-10, young players want to play nets now because they see a role for themselves, a more creative role than standing freezing in the rain under the posts and I think that people like Ethan Rafferty and Niall Morgan have helped that.

Brendan Bendar

Still ignoring the elephant in the room I see, Ah well, the ‘outdoor basketball’ currently being played with handpassing up to around forty times before a shot is even considered Will drone on.

The penny will soon drop that the only people supporting this will be the clipboard merchants who want to maintain their positions in the game at all costs.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320701#Comment_120320701

no, he was talking about sports

dxhound2005

At least the purveyors of clipboards are doing well out of it.

https://www.michaelmurphysports.ie/p/bainisteoir-a4-tactics-folder---black/0000001219661?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwO20BhCJARIsAAnTIVTocRRsPbi9tCUL5qQ1cEAXLNo3gyf2F9sFwDuujTvvNO_Cppz8QNAaAsHAEALw_wcB

Brendan Bendar

Yep…. turning the game into 'outdoor basketball',and boring possession tactics.

John Spectator won't pay big bucks to watch these grifters kill the game.

Ja sees it …… and has acted…maybe nothing too big, but he sees where this is going if left in the hands of

the clipboard merchants.

pgj2015

I wonder will hurling take advantage of the situation? people might realize it is a way better game and start going to hurling games and get their kids playing it over football? maybe it will take off and get stronger in places like Leinster and Connacht.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122403612#Comment_122403612

Lets keep this one on football Pee, lets keep the feet of the 'clipboard merchants' to the fire.

They are running out of excuses and getting backed into corners.

dxhound2005

Hurling is evolving more into a possession game, much to the dismay of the traditionalists. They say fire the ball in long to the forwards and let them battle for it. The more modern approach is to retain possession and progress up the field with shorter passes. Plenty more in the press like this bit below if people want to look it up. Anyone with an interest in hurling should be well aware that it is changing into a possession game. Or Muck as some will call it.

"IN ALL FAIRNESS - Hurling trending in the wrong path

The first half of Saturday’s National Hurling League game between Limerick and Tipperary was a hard watch. Even taking the cold and wet conditions into account, there was little to excite the over five thousand people that made their way to Cork for a neutral venue hurling league game.

The over proliferation of the handpass and Brick-flick is something all hurling people should be concerned about. Sports evolve and certainly hurling is going through a major one at the moment, but evolution is good once the game doesn’t suffer, and I feel it is at the moment.

Hurling is now being poisoned by the possession disease that has made Gaelic Football a hard watch in recent years, bar when the few elite teams face off against each other. The thinkers have gotten their hands on the game and in an effort to find a new element to the game of hurling, they have made it harder to watch."

megadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122403306#Comment_122403306

Nnnnnnn……..nnnnnnnnn……..hiccup………..nnnnnnn……clipboard merchants………. nnnnnnnnn…….nnnnnnnnnnn…….hiccup……..nnnnnn……..handpassing………nnnnnnnnn………nnnnnnnnn…….outdoor basketball………….nnnnnnnnnnnn……………..clipboard merchants…….hiccup ………nnnnnnn……..nnnnnnnnnnn……………..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406861#Comment_122406861

They are the problem,bro, there are still denyers out there.

Coming up with rubbish trying to convince folk black is white.

Time to fess up and accept reality, because reality will be thrown at you every time.

pgj2015

I was watching the highlights of Laois v Antrim yesterday, from the semi final a few weeks ago, it looked a good game, lots of long kicking and points scored from long range, not sure if it looked good because it was the highlights or if the game was actually good? anyone see the full game?

Charlo30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406935#Comment_122406935

You keep mentioning clipboard merchants and I do somewhat agree with you. Teams have become a bit too focused on stats and data. But regardless of any rule changes. Management teams will still be looking at certain data & stats. So while the clipboard merchants influence might be curtailed they wont be going away

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407031#Comment_122407031

Agree, however the stranglehold they have on the way the game is played today needs to be loosened.

I would not be expecting big changes, however, the business of 37 handpasses sideways and backwards before a shot is even attempted is, to even the most feeble minded members of the spectators is not a good watch.

The supporters of the Clipboard merchants of course will try to hold on to their status and Gaelic football will become two teams shunting back and forward playing amongst themselves whilst the spectators will turn to their mobile devices while this procession back and forth continues.

There is nothing surer unless changes are made.

blackvalley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122407001#Comment_122407001

“ Highlights of Laois V Antrim “ . That would be a very short watch I would think.

Davys Fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122404392#Comment_122404392

While I might agree with some of what your saying why would you bring it up on this tread after and Epic hurling match? Yesterdays match would put and sport in the shade. If you are really concerned about the welfare of hurling maybe start a new thread about it and I will join you there.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411013#Comment_122411013

It was well before Sunday, and was in response to the suggestion that we should abandon football for the much superior game of hurling. I only have a scant knowledge of hurling, but I am better informed than the OP of this thread. The short passing possession game works well in both codes. No need for a new hurling thread, you can contribute to this one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058191536/hurling-what-s-gone-wrong-and-where-do-we-go-from-here

https://www.the42.ie/clare-waterford-2-933271-Jun2013/

"And what way will Davy Fitzgerald set out his Clare team? The short-passing possession style of game is high-risk and brilliant to watch when it’s done well and executed at speed. But Waterford will feel confident of breaking down Clare by applying maximum pressure in key areas."

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/story-clare-hurlers-2013-binned-supermacs-196821

"The year 2013 and the Clare hurlers and Davy Fitzgerald are like men possessed. 16 years without an All-Ireland senior win, a good deal of hurling folk slating their short-passing style, a batch of gifted under-21 hurlers coming of age, this was the time to do it."