The eviction ban

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381685#Comment_120381685

Yes a lot of these TDs hold properties themselves and it is also the default investment of hundreds of thousands of people. This, I think, is why the situation had become so extreme that rent controls were eventually needed and then the no fault eviction ban.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381223#Comment_120381223

Youire forgetting about moving as to why homeowners like prices rising, for instance as is happening quiet a bit at the moment and driving prices in North Wexford higher, a lot of of retirees arecashing in their houses in south country Dublin and Greystones etc and moving to north and middle Wexford and buying detached homes and still having a nice lump sum in the bank, rising house prices serves them well.

I’ll give an anecdote, back at the height of the last crash around 2012 I was looking to buy and areas that would have been out of my reach previously were suddenly within grasp there was a house in Glenageary we went to look at, asking price 380000, 3 bed semi detached love.y back garden, however in 2007 similar houses on the street fetched 1 million plus.

estate agent told me the owner was sick they’d missed the boat, they’d intended to sell and buy an apartment in glenageary for 500k and keep the rest of the cash to live on, now the price crash had driven down the apartments as well, but they’d dropped to 260000, so if they bought they would have 120k to live on as opposed to 600k.

Esate agent told me that if they sold they were moving down to Cork instead.

So that’s just one little tale of why owners like high house prices, if you intend to trade down or move out of the area high prices can give you a nice lifestyle.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372652#Comment_120372652

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372932#Comment_120372932

You might want to check the house prices in the areas you are deciding to put all these social houses.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381726#Comment_120381726

I will reply to your post in more detail tomorrow but have to take you up on one point:

@BlueSkyDreams wrote: "Govt paying HAP to landlords does not benefit landlords, as if the social tenant stops paying their contribution to the rent, the govt stops the HAP payment to the landlord!"

Obviously HAP benefits landlords. Yes if the tenant stops paying, the landlord doesn't get the HAP money. In this respect it is no different to an ordinary tenant who does not pay. But assuming the tenant does pay, that HAP payment is extra paid by the Government to the landlord. The landlord is the beneficiary of that taxpayers money. If there were no HAP or other rent subsidy, less overall money would be in the market for the landlord.

"Given that the HAP payment is generally 80%+ of the total rent, the landlord would prefer, generally, to not rent to HAP tenants at all."

I believe they probably don't like the paperwork and also they may not like an unemployed tenant (as some HAP tenants are) but the HAP money itself I've never heard a landlord objecting to. The point remains that it is extra money being paid by the taxpayer to the landlord. A certain amount of rent is paid to landlords in the country. A proportion of that is HAP payments and landlords, collectively, are beneficiaries of that.

Imagine if the HAP were a million euro per tenant on HAP.

Hopefully this will be the nail in the coffin for FFG.

The few defending this are doing so just because they can’t be seen to be on the same side as opponents it’s nothing to do with the merits of lifting the ban.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381779#Comment_120381779

I think there's some flaws in your reasoning there. There are people that lose out from HAP, such as non-HAP tenants, but the landlord does not lose out.

You say:

"There are plenty of people out there able to pay that amount in the private market but the govt disallows them from raising their rent to market rates AND forces them to take on social tenants via HAP, simply because the govt hasnt done its job in the first place by building and maintaining social housing."

True, the landlord may be happy to take a non-HAP tenant but if, as you say, they are forced to take a HAP tenant then the non-HAP tenant still needs accommodation and, since a HAP tenant has taken the accommodation, the non-HAP tenant now must compete for a reduced number of units. It is generally a good situation for landlords to have a surplus of tenants competing for their property.

Where I think you would have a point though, is if you were to argue that HAP is unfair to non-HAP tenants as rents are likely to be overall higher with the money being pumped in. Possibly it is the case that it is unfair but it is a different argument.

thinkabouit

I hope this motion fails tomorrow because it’s absolutely ridiculous that government can dictate to people who/what & when what you do with your property.

I don’t want a government here getting that kind of power, I don’t trust them.

This housing problem is a failure of our government to properly secure our border’s & get control on immigration.

Fix that issue first.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381793#Comment_120381793

No need for the dramatics

But as regards any motion, the crafty landlords will be hoping the ban is extended.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381748#Comment_120381748

No I wasn't forgetting about people downsizing who do, as you say, benefit from rising prices. I was just pointing out that those moving up the ladder lose out and those settled at a particular point neither benefit nor suffer. This is in contrast with, say, investors who in general do benefit from rising asset prices as they are free to cash out subject to regulations. When governments purchase houses for social housing, this is extra money into the market which will have the tendency to push up prices generally, thereby benefiting investors.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381793#Comment_120381793

Exactly.

what next ?

a law on how many cars a family may own, or any at all if a government judge they have adequate public transport links nearby ?

a limit on how many flights can be taken ?

SF and O’Broin showing their true colours. Heading towards a variant of communism….with this schtick of theirs.

it won’t stop at housing evictions being banned and dictates being issued on housing., that’s a guarantee.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381825#Comment_120381825

1984 has passed us but we’re getting closer to it every year.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381811#Comment_120381811

Now I'm really confused, I thought most landlords didn't want the eviction ban and were glad when it finished. Isn't the eviction ban being blamed for the increase in landlords leaving the market?

Can you explain what you mean and how it would benefit them to have it extended?

Shelga

As I hear more stories about people facing evictions- I saw one of a woman considering suicide as she can’t find anywhere in Dublin to take HAP- I do understand why some people want the ban extended. And I can understand why, if you’re facing presenting to a Garda station with your kids, that you’re not willing to hear the reasons why a ban is best for you in the long term.

It is an absolutely shameful indictment on our government of the last decade that it has come to this. Both options are appalling. It makes me so sad, on a daily basis, as I’m sure it does to so many other people. What is the housing catastrophe doing to the nation’s collective psyche, I dread to think. Feels like so many people, especially those under around 40/45, have no hope, no joy, no sense that it will ever get any better.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381779#Comment_120381779

How many tenants on HAP actually have a rent contribution of 30 euro a week though? A lot of people on HAP work.

Is there any stats on relation to rent contributions anywhere?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382139#Comment_120382139

Most tenant's would be on the lower rate. You have to remember that HAP at present only covers 50-70% in many cases of the actual rent. A tenant is accessed as to there means so the HAP top up they pay the LL usually pulls them I to the lower rate of what they pay a LA.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381869#Comment_120381869

You should know who you are dealing with. It's all waffle it makes no sense.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382057#Comment_120382057

Very interesting article in last Sunday Independent by Conor Skehan. He speaks on how homelessness effected his parents and his family in general. Yet he is totally against extending the termination ban. As well he thinks the regulation o er the last nearly ten years now has driven LL out of the market( that was in the week before SI )

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ive-lost-my-home-twice-it-scars-you-but-emotions-must-be-left-aside-when-tackling-the-housing-crisis-42393690.html

It would do well for many here to read his articles which were written over the last 5-6 weeks. He understands the reality more than most.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381540#Comment_120381540

There are new A rated in Wexford for under 300k an average couple using help to buy could afford that? Working mostly from home has given much more choice. Wexford is on a train line, it's got a major hospital its a very large town.

mariaalice

I know it's not simple for a lot of people, but I'm always interested by the... I have to live in Dublin argument.

dennis72

A permanent eviction ban is the final nail in the coffin of the private rental market expecially when it includes rent defaulters

Warning signs where there last year next is privately owned homes extra taxes applied for low level occupancy etc

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381869#Comment_120381869

The vast majority of landlords won't be trying to evict their tenant over the next three months - wait to see if it is not extended and count how many perma-whingers on here actually sell and you'll see that it is a tiny number. The fact is that for many of those ones, it is their only option to gather wealth. It's the same handout entitlement mentality you get with the people who never work. They want a system that paves their way for them without them having to actually contribute anything meaningful. Whereas the competent professional ones realise that their business is tenants and aren't always fretting over how to get rid of them.

So extending it will have no practical impact on the vast majority - however, it will give leverage for other concessions - such as preferential tax treatment on rental income for all landlords.

I did say crafty landlords. So perma-waffling, perma-whinging ones that struggle with letting out a single cottage in the back arse of Limerick likely won't understand, but cute-hoor ones the likes of Michael Healy Rae will understand, and do. You might have heard him on the radio after changing his mind and calling for it to be extended? Him of the 20+ rental properties, countless businesses and a full time career in politics. He knows what he is up to.

Don't forget the eviction moratorium never applied to delinquent tenants.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382205#Comment_120382205

Probably because they don't want to live over an hour drive (120 km) from family and friends, not to mention work. This is a 1 hr drive when there are no issues like bad weather or an accident, so it is really the ideal case which is often not reality. The cost of fuel travelling between Dublin and Wexford would also need to be taken into account. A lot of people from Dublin made the mistake of moving to Gorey (it's a fine place, nothing wrong with it) and being really far away from everyone.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382404#Comment_120382404

I was addressing the group that work from home 3 day a week, it's becoming very common obviously not going to work for those who have to on site every day.

Red Silurian

It's amazing to think that COVID restrictions were introduced in March 2020 for 2 weeks, then another 2, another 3, another 6 months.... And eventually lasted for almost 2 full years in one form or another

By comparison the eviction ban was stated as 30 October 2022 to 31 March 2023 and as soon as it ran its course it's gone in one fail swoop, never to be seen again.

The contrast is stark

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382558#Comment_120382558

You would still be driving 500km a week driving in twice. That is just for work. What about meeting family and friends? Anyone I know who moved to Gorey from Dublin regretted it.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382601#Comment_120382601

Many people who bought in the noughties suffered buyers remorse. I have known guys from Dublin buying in places like Navan. Edenderry, kinnegad, Portlaoise, Drogheda etc and not one of them still lives there. Some are renting again rather than live in those towns isolated from their everyday lives. Just because a house is affordable does not make it a good place to live.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382710#Comment_120382710

Is it an Irish thing? The US the UK moving around is completely unremarkable individuals make new lives for themselves. The other one that's is interesting is the hate for Blanchardstown as a place to live.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382596#Comment_120382596

You are not seeing the connection between money being pumped in and an inflated market.

Remove HAP tomorrow, and you will see chaos among all the have-a-go-landlords as their rental income drops and house prices drop too. One does not have to have a HAP tenant, or any tenant for that matter, to be benefiting from the injection of public money in that manner. Add to that the effect of councils overpaying for private purchases.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382805#Comment_120382805

Many bought during the Celtic Tiger when they thought that buying a property, any property, for any price, was a sure-fire way route to wealth. But a house in Drogheda, make 100k on it in 2 years and use that to fund extra spending on coke and hookers in Dublin. Genius.

Then the tide went out.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382817#Comment_120382817

Yesterday's news going on for 20 years ago at this stage, it's a whole new ball game now.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382805#Comment_120382805

Blanch gets a really bad rap with a lot of the antisocial behaviour going on there unfortunately.

There's a bit of 'forever home' nonsense you see going on with a lot of Irish folks. That's the dream people have anyway.

In reality, people sell properties for a whole host of reasons all the time.

dasa29

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382596#Comment_120382596

Ok you are wrong

The fact that a tenant stops paying the €150 top-up has nothing to do with the LA and it is between the Tenant and Landlord.

The LA will only stop the rent if the Tenant stops paying the LA their contribution to the rent.

I posted the below a few weeks ago and it explains how HAP works

"That looks ok but you are missing the fact that all HAP tenants pay at least €30 a week to the LA.

Tenant pays a rent of €1000

LA Agrees to pay €850 via HAP with Tenant paying €30 a Week or €130 a month as this is their contribution to the rent.

Tenant pays the Landlord the extra €150 to bring it up to €1000 as top up is allowed with HAP.

So a Tenant on HAP in this situation has to pay €150(LL) + €130(LA)= €280 out of his Monthly income to the rent."