Why does the Catholic Church still gave control over some schools in Ireland? It's time this changed

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335620#Comment_120335620

Any scumbag that sexually abuses children deserves to have their name highlighted for eternity so everyone knows what they did. And an organisation like the church that covered up so many of these atrocities and facilitated it further by moving these scumbags from one parish to the next should be reminded of their behaviour on a daily basis.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331021#Comment_120331021

Tangent my eye. Every parent that baptises their kids should be made very aware that they are enrolling the children into an organisation that promoted a man who facilitated kiddy fiddling to the top of the hierarchy.

spacetweek

One of the features of a republic is that, in opposition to monarchies which in Europe are closely related to an official state religion, church and state must be separate. There can't be mandatory religion.

Irish people don't know what a republic actually is. This won't be a republic until schools and hospitals have the malicious effects of religion removed from them.

Tradition and "sticking with what you know" win out in Ireland and many quite young parents still baptise their kids and send them to Catholic schools even though they aren't interested in religion. Even the Educate Together that I send my kid to has many baptised kids in it.

The Malahide divestment debacle was because of inertia and fear of the unknown. It was framed in a way that ensured no change would take place, very clever Catholic obstructionism.

The Government should set up state school management boards and a certain proportion of schools (something reasonable like 60%, primary and secondary) should have their management transferred to a board. Parents shouldn't be consulted as they will always choose the conservative option in these cases despite this being against their children's interest. Catholic education for kids perpetuates the cycle of steeping Irish kids in religiosity as they then grow up to be parents that send their kids to religious schools and it continues forever.

As for single gender schools, this is Saudi Arabian/Taliban nonsense that should be abolished overnight. It is bizarre and very harmful to children.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058287307/why-does-the-catholic-church-still-gave-control-over-some-schools-in-ireland-its-time-this-changed

The Catholic Church today is a lot lot different than it was years and years ago. It is far more inclusive and progressive. And our people and our country’s relationship with the church is a lot lot different. It’s far better.

seriously, the church bashing today and fake outrage really is tiresome. People desperately searching for scandal and shame and outrage; when in reality folks are just getting on with their lives in a very very free and liberal society.

peolme need to get the fook out of the past

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338494#Comment_120338494

They denied,blamed victims,rationalised and only reluctantly eventually admitted to what they were up to when the evidence was irrefutable. Then refused to pay reparations.

This shower are a godless psychotic organisation that are only interested in power and money.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338494#Comment_120338494

Most people have discovered that the way to have a better relationship with the church is to have as little to do with it as possible. Unfortunately when you have a child to enrol in school or have to attend hospital you then discover how much farcical and unaccountable church influence and control remain over public services

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338464#Comment_120338464

Parents shouldn't be consulted as they will always choose the conservative option in these cases despite this being against their children's interest.

That would be rather convenient for you in promoting your views, wouldn’t it, to have the authority to declare that you know best for other people’s children than they do 🤔

It definitely wouldn’t work out as you hope though, you need parents to support your ideas, which given the evidence posted earlier in the thread, many of them do. Your attempt to deprive parents of the opportunity to have their views heard would, without question, see them taking an opposing stance to your ideas, and all your efforts will have been for nothing.

But at least the empty buildings will belong to the State, an obligation I’m sure they’ll be grateful to you for imposing upon them to maintain… aye, probably not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338653#Comment_120338653

Do you reckon it’s fair to say though HD that you notice it more because you’re more attuned to it, not in a bad way, but simply because you’re not religious, whereas people who are religious would tend to take what you see for granted as such? They’re not as attuned to it as you are because to them it doesn’t stand out as much as it does to you?

kneemos

Let's not mention the Aids epidemic in Africa and the claim by the pope that condoms could make it worse.

These people really couldn't give two hoots about death or suffering as long as their precious rules aren't broken. OK if you're a pedo though.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338464#Comment_120338464

A republic is "“a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives ..."

Separation of church and state is good - but I'm not seeing that it has to be absolute, per the definition of a repuiblic.

Also, your proposal to deny one set of citizens (parents) the right to have their view heard and acted on sounds somewhat, unrepublican.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327592#Comment_120327592

If no church can be a patron/owner of schools, according to you, then who should be the patron of the schools instead?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338682#Comment_120338682

Do you reckon it’s fair to say though HD that you notice it more because you’re more attuned to it, not in a bad way, but simply because you’re not religious, whereas people who are religious would tend to take what you see for granted as such? They’re not as attuned to it as you are because to them it doesn’t stand out as much as it does to you?

Yes, people who aren't the ones being systematically discriminated against generally don't have a problem with the status quo. Who knew! 🙄

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338738#Comment_120338738

Well I knew that much, which is why I sought the clarification. Because I was trying to make sense of the first part of your post where you claim that most people have discovered that the way to have a better relationship with the church is to have as little to do with it as possible.

On that basis it’s surely more accurate to claim that most people who have been systematically discriminated against have discovered that the way to have a better relationship with the church is to have as little to do with it as possible. Only then does the second part of your post make any sense, because as you point out only those being discriminated against have a problem with the status quo.

Everyone else has a better relationship with the church already, clearly!

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338653#Comment_120338653

Children today in school get a full and well-rounded monitored and safe education. . Like I said, people need to live today, and quit the church bashing about years and years ago. We are a far more liberal and free society today. So they get some religious teaching, big deal!!!

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338729#Comment_120338729

The state

The state pays for the schools to be built. The state pays the teachers salaries.

If a private body wishes to own a school then they should be responsible entirely for funding.

IMO

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338974#Comment_120338974

So even less relevant than it was.

It's a ludicrous situation and unfair on the children that are separated during religious education,yet remain in the classroom. It's verging on abuse.

Religious folk are great for maintaining the status quo.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339105#Comment_120339105

What absolute OTT nonsense hysteria. I know of nobody in my group-peer that had any abuse or bad bad experiences due to going to a school with Catholic Church leanings, and that was decades ago…and here in 2023 when children are insanely cherished (I have children myself) and you’re taking about abuse.

I can only speak for my school going children, and they are very happy, safe and healthily content in school. I have zero concern whatsoever that my children are in catholic schools.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339237#Comment_120339237

Having a child separated in a classroom is totally not healthy.

Also going against the express wishes of the parents. The child can't help but hear what's going on.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339237#Comment_120339237

it's just bizarre that you've no problem with an organisation based on absolute nonsense that is world famous for paedophelia being involved with schools

Cluedo Monopoly

For me I want to know why the church is never ever Proactive when it comes to abuse and survivors of abuse. Even in 2023. They seem to have learned nothing. There is never any internal investigations and they never share evidence of abuse to the Gardai unless they are compelled to. Where is the evidence of internal agitation to come clean and disclose abuses that have not come to light yet? There is never any attempt to help survivors.

Take for example the Spiritan abuse scandal of recent months. Does anyone in their right mind think that the Spiritans didn't know about the abuse in their schools for decades?? Of course not. What did the Spiritans do about it? They knew there were many many survivors living with that awful abuse and they chose to do nothing. They hoped it would never get out. What does that tell you? Is that normal by any standards? People will tell you that the church have changed. Nonsense. It's still red rotten. The Spiritans were quick to issue an apology when the truth came out. Sickening really. The people that facilitated the abuse by turning a blind eye should be hauled into the courts too to answer for their inaction, then and now.

Are there other abuse scandals to come out? Absolutely. Will the church be proactive in any of them? Absolutely not. Damage limitation is the culture. Secrecy.

Organisation of creeps. I don't know how people darken their doors. They condone the abuse in my eyes.

JohnnyFortune

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332478#Comment_120332478

We need skilled, legal workers to fill job vacancies. We have access to a huge EU market of people that can come and work here.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339363#Comment_120339363

So? Where are they?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339256#Comment_120339256

So one child/parent dictates here?

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339446#Comment_120339446

Yeah there's only one child in the whole education system that has opted out of religious education.

Shame really.

Snake Plisken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339237#Comment_120339237

There is no talking to some of these posters who have zero experience of the church these days.

I'd be more concerned about young impressionable children having to learn what our current minister of children would like to bring into our schools. Dangerous is an understatement

Why he was even given that ministry is a mystery to me.

I suppose the catholic haters on here are all for this type of stuff to be thought in our schools!

https://gript.ie/dangerous-misinformation-anger-at-ministers-transgender-plans-for-primary-schools/

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329682#Comment_120329682

The Churches and Cathedrals in Ireland and indeed all over Europe are some of the finest examples of what people could build without modern equipment, but yeah lets tear them all down and put a few council houses in instead.

Sure lets go the whole hog and demolish all the castles as well.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339516#Comment_120339516

It's simple. People using the past to bash today....today is a completely different relationship.

People need to try work together and embrace and build.....live and let live. The church bashing is just way too exaggerated, contrived and hostile

Hoboo

The schools wouldn’t exist if parents stopped indoctrinating their children into a cult they slam in private.

Paedophiles!! they all shout, whilst signing their child up for the same nonsense they were once brainwashed with.

If I hear “if they don’t get communion and confirmation they won’t get into the school” one more time.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339548#Comment_120339548

It’s really not. From the top down the Catholic Church is less Christian than a mosque. The importance of its image and survival outweighs even children of it’s own flock.

Catholocism isn’t anything close to Christianity. It’s a club. An organisation. A cult.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339565#Comment_120339565

Or maybe the majority of the poplulation are happy enough to send their children to Catholic schools, a few hysterical atheists who nearly cream themselves at the chance to put the boot in any time a thread about those horrible Catholics appears is probably not representative of most people.

Galwayguy35

Is religion really being forced on kids in schools?

I started secondary school in 1987 and one English girl in the class opted out of religion class, there was no big deal made of it she did her homework for the 40 min class.

Now if it wasn't a problem 36 years ago I doubt it is in 2023.

In fact I think a lot more parents these days are more concerned about O Gormans plan rather than what the OP thinks it might be.