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Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

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    #482
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468383#Comment_121468383

    I never mentioned religion.

    You suggest that as a country we don't afford unmarried families the same protections as married families? A non runner in these times I'm afraid, blatant discrimination based on marriage status? Most people wouldn't agree with you.

    Time moves forward, society changes



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    #483
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468388#Comment_121468388

    Which is...

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #484
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Not sure why the vote can't be held the same day as the Local Elections at the end of May/start of June.

    It's obvious the turnout will be dreadful. It could be the lowest turnout ever for a referendum.



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    #485
    I.R.Y.E.D
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468415#Comment_121468415

    People should be careful what they wish for, traditionally for centuries people were locked up for having the slightest mental illness, discriminated for being a different religion, people had no rights in terms of working hours etc.



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    #486
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468255#Comment_121468255

    It doesn't matter a toss what it's called. Only the text which is proposed to be inserted (or deleted) into the constitution matters.

    There are parents who wish to stay at home but equally there are others who don't. It's really none of your business. I haven't heard a line like that about creches in 40 years. Age hasn't improved it.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #487
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468427#Comment_121468427

    Y'know, maybe many or indeed most women didn't want to be regarded as little more than breeding sows and treated accordingly by our laws and society.

    Choice is good. You don't get to make other people's choices for them.

    There's a reason that societies (islamic for instance) which lay 50% of their intellectual capacity to waste are so backward.

    The only population crisis is that it's going up too fast. Globally it's well over doubled in 50 years, do you reckon that's sustainable?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #488
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468415#Comment_121468415

    A rapidly evolving technological society can't afford to be hamstrung by notions from centuries ago, which were usually baseless even then.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #489
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468434#Comment_121468434

    UBI can only work with entirely closed borders, even considering only migration within the EU it's not workable for any state to introduce UBI unless all others do simultaneously.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #490
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469385#Comment_121469385

    No one is taking anything away............



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    #491
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469404#Comment_121469404

    So you don't believe people should work if they are able to?



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    #492
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469410#Comment_121469410

    We'll no one is taking away social welfare protections based on this referendum.

    if anything, the change of family will ensure more people are classed as families, including all those single parents with children, who currently are not a 'family '



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    #493
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,712 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467869#Comment_121467869


    Leaving aside the various scenarios then that we’re both I’d say in agreement on are unlikely to happen, or the marriage bar which was common across Europe for 100 years previously to when it was abolished, having very little to do with the actual circumstances referenced in that provision in the Constitution as it relates to married mothers within the context of the Family - essentially, it refers to women who are already in marital relationships within the home taking care of their family. It’s a recognition of those women’s contribution to Irish society, not a designation of the role of women in Irish society in any broader context.

    As Irish society currently stands, there are nearly half a million women in that position, that’s today, now, in what is a modern society. What the deletion of the only provision which recognises and acknowledges that reality does, is substitute reality with an idealistic view of what women’s place in Irish society should be, and not what it is - there appears to be an attempt to gloss over the fact that successive Governments have done little to raise the status of women in Irish society in any meaningful way, neither through Constitutional or Legislative reforms.

    The Government appears to have rejected the proposed Constitutional reforms recommended by the Citizens Assembly which would have at least gone some way towards raising the status of women in Irish society by recognising the fact that the majority of people providing care, both in the Family, and in the Community, are women. Instead they appear to have chosen not to emphasise the importance of women’s role in providing care, hell they don’t even acknowledge it, instead choosing to pretend that what they’re offering is an opportunity to remove language from the Constitution that is deemed archaic and sexist. Honestly I genuinely fail to see the point in their endeavours, as it’s highly unlikely to change the reality of how couples within a relationship define their roles for themselves within their relationships.

    The other proposed change to the wording of the Constitution in relation to recognition of relationships other than marriage constituting the Family - that doesn’t appear to be changing a whole lot either other than permitting the Courts discretion in quantifying the circumstances in any case whether a relationship which would meet the criteria to be considered a defacto Family. Certainly the introduction of children into the relationship is of far greater significance than the relationship between their parents - children happen to be a far more permanent reminder of a relationship which existed at one point, even when their parents would rather pretend it never happened, regardless of the length of time involved.

    The reason I acknowledge that fact is because I’m all too aware of children who, in doing their family tree, their fathers side of the family is rather more laden down with the fruit of his loins than their mothers side, if you catch my drift? I’m not aiming to be crass, but it’s one of the reasons why I would have been more interested in seeing what reforms were being proposed in legislation that required a Constitutional amendment, that couldn’t already have been implemented in legislation without it. It turns out there aren’t any, and the proposed amendments are merely symbolic, while in reality nothing actually changes in any practical, meaningful sense which would not only have raised the status of women (its purported aim), but would also have given children greater security and protection in Irish law, in Irish society.



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    #494
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465929#Comment_121465929

    That's great and all but who tells them what to talk about? Do they ever do a report on law and order or things that actually have an impact on people's lives?

    Basically what happened is a very small group of powerful individuals decided this is what to discuss, let's have a 'discussion' as if a referendum wasn't already in the works.

    I won't be in Ireland but if I was I'd be voting 'No' because I'm sick of being treated like a fool, being given choices in meaningless referendums. It's like telling a child that they have to go to school, they have to listen to the teacher, they have to do all their homework, they have to use a pen, but they can decide whether it's a blue or black pen. The Irish public are being treated like idiots.



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    #495
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469456#Comment_121469456

    8th amendment impacted loads of people's lives, drug policy and how to approach policing of it affects lives. Removing archaic references from the constitution that represent a very different Ireland, sounds good to me tbh and has the potential to positively impact lives in terms of how families are viewed.



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    #496
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469456#Comment_121469456

    The people of Ireland are the only ones who can decide whether or not to change their constitution.

    The constitution which outlines how our country is ran. And we decide.

    It's a bit weird that you find fault with that.



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    #497
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,612 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469456#Comment_121469456

    This isn't what happened though. The liberal elite drivel is just that.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #498
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,533 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469456#Comment_121469456

    That's some major inferiority complex you have. Have you tried taking to anyone about it?



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    #499
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469456#Comment_121469456

    you don't think the 8th amendment had an impact on people's lives? 🙄

    Interesting that you are getting worked up about a referendum which not only doesn't affect you, but you don't have a vote in either.

    The rest of that is all waffle. It's the government, and the government alone, which decides whether to have a referendum and what the wording is going to be. Having a consultation process is actually an improvement (and probably would have prevented the awful 8th amendment). If you want to change how referendums work... you'll need a referendum on that!

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #500
    kowloonkev
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469459#Comment_121469459
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469483#Comment_121469483

    Totally respect these replies amidst the plethora of otherwise predictable nonsense.

    I'm not against the removal of archaic or meaningless wording in the constitution even though it doesn't impact anyone's lives apart from the perpetually offended.

    I'm against the government running such referendums wasting God knows how much money for political purpose when it could easily be done at the same time as elections.



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    #501
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,743 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466404#Comment_121466404

    If she was claiming single parent allowance and he was making zero contribution from his income to the children's upbringing, should the state provide him with assistance now?



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    #502
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470480#Comment_121470480

    Does it say that in the case?



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    #503
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470165#Comment_121470165

    Totally could be done at the same time



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    #504
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,743 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470682#Comment_121470682

    You're the one who brought it up, I was asking you the question.



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    #505
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470701#Comment_121470701
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470480#Comment_121470480

    The question is completely irrelevant tbh.

    The case was based on the widows contributory pension, which had they been married, this man would have been entitled to. Obviously fulfilling any requirements as set out in the Act.

    Because they were not married, the case was taken that it was unconstitutional because it discriminated against families with unmarried parents. The court found against them at the time, as they are not a family according to our constitution.



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    #506
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470165#Comment_121470165

    I'm against the government running such referendums wasting God knows how much money for political purpose when it could easily be done at the same time as elections.

    Consensus among the political classes is that this approach sidelines debate on the referendum issues, especially when they are fairly marginal like these ones.



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    #507
    Flaneur OBrien
    Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Seems there's no way to win here.

    Hold referenda on the same day as elections, get accused of watering down the referenda, and not giving enough room for debates.

    Hold referenda separately, get told off for wasting taxpayers money 🤷‍♂️



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    #508
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470771#Comment_121470771

    And that is perfectly correct - they weren't married and therefore he was not entitled to such pension. This is why marriage as a legal construct has served society well for centuries. It offers a framework that protects and balances the interests of mothers, fathers and children.

    You & others it seems wish to undermine the concept of marriage. I don't think the Irish public will agree with this at all. They will smell a rat and vote accordingly.



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