Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669327#Comment_121669327

Never mind durable, ask them to define gender and watch the waffle that emits

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676683#Comment_121676683

no I don't mean extra money for people who are on the social welfare to start with.

but single mothers are at home, caring, in social welfare.

So obviously if they should do more, then they should give them more money!

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121678092#Comment_121678092

Like trouble but with a P instead of b

Prefer greedy fauqs Myself

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679461#Comment_121679461

Silent letter h so 👍

Never heard the word before, guess its something to do with a threesome 😅

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679627#Comment_121679627

Yes the new fad instead of the usual three-way for night or weekend all three live as one unit instead of a couple..

Wannabe celebs and social media types

eeepaulo

Have there been any discussions on rte? I dont watch the current affairs programs all the time and maybe i missed it.

whatisayis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680736#Comment_121680736

I heard a discussion on Newstalk this morning. The presenter also incorrectly said "between" instead of "among" when quoting the proposed new wording. As O'Gorman pointed out during the Dail debate "Words matter".

https://www.newstalk.com/news/family-referendum-the-word-woman-isnt-sexist-1636896

Silentcorner

If any one is on the fence on whether they can trust our establishment media, watch how the next few weeks unfolds, the framing, the language etc used when referring to this referendum....the same is evident in every other topic of note in today's media landscape, they have abandoned balance.

I know we are a long way off yet, but what happens if Irish women reject this referendum...that is being vocally supported by the NWCI, the tax payer funded Women's council....surely it would make it redundant.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676683#Comment_121676683

Couldn't agree more. The gold standard should be that one parent is able to be at home when children are pre transition year at least and also for aging parents and relatives. This model of family life should be actively supported.

The rot set in when the powers that be set about raising the cost of housing and living to require two incomes, so they could increase the work force so that more profits could be made and more tax could be paid.

Who voted for this? And if there were an advisory referendum directing the state back towards previous social norms, I believe it would be carried handsomely. There are so many benefits at personal, familial, local community and society level to make it a no brainer.

whatisayis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681672#Comment_121681672

A perfect example of what you refer to is evident in that Newstalk discussion where the CEO of One Family used the slogan "A woman's place is where she wants it be". She must be aware that is what the Constitution currently says. Article 95 is the right to work and Article 41.2 is the right to stay at home.

Removing Article 41.2 means a women no longer has the choice under the Constitution as to where she wants to be.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679200#Comment_121679200

So will my wife get paid for being at home and raising the kids while I work with this new referendum?

Currently she qualifies for nothing. Between looking after the kids and the home she's full time.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681672#Comment_121681672

The National "Women's" Council of Ireland have a biological man on its executive board. They are a transwoman. The NWC does not have much traction or support for its Yes vote plea. It would appear that it is comprised of "well heeled articulate women" (including a man who is now a woman). It is woke to its knees.

All that is fine, but anyone I speak to couldn't care less about trans folk, myself included -they are free to self identify under the law, but when a WOMEN's council includes a bio man, it is just all too much for bio women. But that man is now a woman, and we cannot question biological fact anymore.

.Since the NWC is advocating Yes, I will be voting NO. Gender issues are behind a lot of this I feel. Rightly or wrongly when in doubt leave the status quo, so that's what I'm doing. The durable Duracell Bunny can hop off.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681953#Comment_121681953

I have no idea, but I was answering a poster who seemed to think any government assistance to stay at home mothers should exclude those in social welfare.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681950#Comment_121681950

Removing Article 41.2 means a women no longer has the choice under the Constitution as to where she wants to be.

That's ridiculous nonsense. The constitution places no obligation on women or anyone else to enter employment.

It's article 45 by the way. You must have missed the bit where it says that article is of no legal effect?

The principles of social policy set forth in this Article are intended for the general guidance of the Oireachtas. The application of those principles in the making of laws shall be the care of the Oireachtas exclusively, and shall not be cognisable by any Court under any of the provisions of this Constitution.

Hotblack Desiato

Interesting to see how many (male) boardsies want the 1950s to come back.

The only reason houses were affordable on one decent income in the past was because many people didn't have a decent income or were unemployed altogether.

In a rich country where most women choose to work, it's inevitable that house prices will rise to reflect the greater earning power of a two-income couple. The only way to prevent that would be massive building by the state but the 1950s nostalgists are unlikely to want to pay the taxes to provide for that.

Large families and women mostly working in the home are characteristics of poor countries. Ireland used to be a poor country, I'd rather have the problems of a rich country than a poor one, 70s and 80s were a grim time in Ireland for most and earlier decades were even worse.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677635#Comment_121677635

which will mostly create animosity and issues between elderly partners and adult children of the deceased at an already-difficult time.

How's that?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681953#Comment_121681953

well why dont you pay her then?

Gatling

Checked the voting register yesterday thinking nothing to worry about we have voted in the last number of elections, only to find neither me or wifey are on the register neither is our address or eircode,

But yes we will be definitely be voting No if the government and elected TDs can't and won't define what a woman is then they have no right telling us we need to change the constitution, women will be erased from the constitution then the likes of maternity hospitals will be changed to remove woman and women and schools.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682001#Comment_121682001

Poster is right. They are already on a payment having chosen ( not always) not to get a job when they can.

Others , my wife included have no other income bar what I earn and chooses to raise our kids.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682306#Comment_121682306

Widow meets a new partner at bingo (or LoL tournament, whatever) and moves in with them 4 years before death - and that person attempts to claim their estate on the basis of a durable relationship after they die, leaving the deceased's children to fight their corner for inheritance that may or may not have been intended for them.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121683243#Comment_121683243

Yep. And if the state should do more for stay at home mothers, then they cannot exclude mothers on social welfare. Which is what the poster suggests. If the argument is to protect women in the home, then they can't just ignore one type of mother.

DaSchmo

There doesn't appear to be any polling carried out on this yet? I had a quick look on google and nothing turned up. Obviously there's people doing twitter polls etc but that's not a credible source.

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121683714#Comment_121683714

Heard One quoted a few weeks back, the family one neck and neck, the woman one pass with flying colours. But then we do have previous trying to erase women. I'll be voting no and if I can make it back to the home place I'll vote twice 🤣

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682665#Comment_121682665

Sigh, andother trans conspiracist.

The word "man" does not appear in the constitution anywhere, help help I've been erased!!!!1!11!!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121683280#Comment_121683280

Sounds pretty fanciful. The constitution says nothing about inheritance and in any case, anyone can make a will, adult non-disabled children have no divine right to an inheritance.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121683243#Comment_121683243

In short, to answer your immediate question - the proposed amendment changes nothing in any material or meaningful way.

Long answer:

Poster couldn’t be more wrong.

Nobody is receiving a payment from the State for their work in the home. Those who are receiving a payment like unemployment assistance or carers allowance or one parent family payment (all means tested, and the OFPF stops as soon as the youngest child reaches 7), are still not receiving any payment for their labour in the home. If, as the poster suggests - people working in the home should receive a payment, for their work in the home, then it would immediately be discriminatory to exclude anyone who is already receiving welfare payments for other reasons.

The reason for the inclusion of the provision recognising women working in the home is because at the time, the family was founded on marriage, where it was understood that a woman should give up work when she was then being provided for by her husband (much the same way as that poster making the point, and you, and I), and raise their children. That’s why it comes under the heading in the Constitution of The Family. The provision doesn’t stand on its own, but must be read in the context of what constitutes The Family, as it’s recognised in the Constitution. There was no divorce at the time, so when a couple were married, that was it - they were married for life, and the idea was to promote and protect the traditional model of the family.

Nowadays when the marital relationship breaks down, a spouse is required to provide for their spouse, whereas in the case of unmarried couples who do not qualify as a cohabiting relationship, they are not required to provide for their ex, but are still required to provide for their children. This leads to a situation we have in Irish society where it is mostly (98%) women who are dependent upon welfare while raising children, unable to participate in full-time employment, reduced to living in poverty.

The proposed amendment changes none of that, it’s still nothing more than a token nod, but now it’s proposed that token nod not just be made gender neutral, but generic, and referring only to recognising the provision of care by members of a family to one another by reason of the bonds that exist among them gives to Society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and shall strive to support such provision.

You’ll notice that the amendment refers to care by members of a family, which not only requires the second proposed amendment to pass in order to recognise families other than the family founded on marriage, it doesn’t acknowledge care provided in the wider community by people unrelated to the family, such as friends, neighbours and childcare providers. There is no requirement to strive to support them, or, as the Citizens Assembly and Oireachtas committee recommended - going so far as to commit to taking reasonable measures to provide support for care in the wider community (again, primarily provided by women, often earning less than minimum wage in childcare settings), which means they too are living in poverty.

I was fortunate enough that my neighbour cared for me without ever expecting a penny from my parents who were both in full-time employment, while she was reliant on the meagre income from the widow’s pension payment (that’s very specific circumstances, though similar circumstances are not uncommon even today) for providing care which the State still wouldn’t be obligated to recognise and strive to support.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682665#Comment_121682665

lol.

"The likes of maternity hospitals will be changed to remove woman and women and schools"

Are you saying that cis women will no longer be able to attend maternity hospitals? Where should trans men have their babies, if not in a maternity hospital?

What has this to with schools? You completely lost me there.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121684628#Comment_121684628

As seen in the UK pregnant women and womens medical treatments will be replaced with gender neutral term's instead of woman or women, breastfeeding will be replaced with chest feeding,

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121684258#Comment_121684258

Men is mentioned on the 3rd line of the constitution FFS, it also mentioned father but we are deleting all female references. You won't be happy til we are all drinking victory gin.

Hamsterchops

I guess ideally men & women should have equal mention X times, or none at all.

Is it just any mention of women who are being erased from the constitution?

Maybe take men & woman out of the equation altogether, and be done with it . . .