Shooting in Hamburg; Germany

dublinman1990

Six people have been killed with several others wounded so far.

The shooting took place at a Jehovah's Witness centre according to German Police.

Source BBC News & The Guardian

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64910415

WrenBoy

"Police say no perpetrator at large" has there been any reports they have apprehended or shot someone ?

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338246#Comment_120338246

I thought on the run but maybe caught now

RIP the 6 deceased

AyeGer

Very sad to see this happening again, Germany is a country that has taken in a lot of people in recent years. This sort of mindless murder is an abomination to any decent person regardless of what faith they have or may not have. There are photos of the gunman on the daily mail.

dublinman1990

German police have said the perpetrator was shot dead although not confirmed. He is the only additional fatality to have died in this shooting so far. That is seven people killed along with 25 people injured.

It is still a tragic incident either way for the people of Germany. We preferably would not want to see things like this to happen again on Europe's streets.

However; there are a minority of sickos out there who are still not listening to the message that we need to live in peace and not hate.

That is the sad reality of living in Europe at the moment.

85603

Were there any witnesses? .....

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338590#Comment_120338590

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11841829/amp/At-six-people-dead-wounded-gunman-opens-fire-Hamburg-shooting.html

just dropping a direct link because that is an absolute abomination of a website to wade through.

Clear your cookies all ye who venture forth.

Jequ0n

Members of a fanatical sect get killed by former member of the congregation. I’m surprised this doesn’t happen more frequently.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338407#Comment_120338407

First of all your comment is inappropriate, second you have no idea what the security forces actually do, third it is far more like you come to harm at the hands of an Irish person and fourth you don’t need to put it on display.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338973#Comment_120338973

Yep. Ireland has far bigger threats from domestic terrorists.

I'm kind of a bit baffled by the motivations for this. When this sort of thing happens it's generally far right, islamic or some kind of incel type thing. But a JW church doesn't really fit as a target with any of those groups. Each of them would have probably picked a more mainstream target, if they were picking a church at all. I could be wrong though and only time will tell.

Although I have a dislike for the JW's and would even think of them as a type of cult, this is a horrific attack. And it's worth mentioning that during nazi germany, the JW's were targeted by the nazi's as well. They were sent to concentration camps and had to wear purple triangles to identify them.

steddyeddy

First of all sympathies for the families of the bereaved.

I live in Germany and travel between Berlin and Mecklenburg (East Germany). The latter is one of the most racist places I have lived and I have lived in the US before this. I have personally witnessed black and Asian friends being harassed in public here. I stood up for them of course but it didn't make them feel more welcome. A few years ago the town I lived in erected plaques to the Jewish people killed during the holocaust here. Some of the locals tore them up. What is more dangerous than the racism is the silence of the locals in this regard. Rarely will a German here step in when a foreigner is being accosted. An Iranian here was recently beaten within an inch of his life by thugs who previously hurled racist abuse at him. It didn't even make the news or the local papers. It's not just people of darker skin tone. It's anyone with a foreign accent, doesn't speak perfect German or any international. In other words what the German's call Ausländer. A Swedish girl I know was also attacked by a crowd in a shop. I was told to go back to Ireland after an incident while seeking medical care. It's worth pointing out that there's a huge distinction between east and west Germany here but all in all it's a problem the German's are refusing to engage properly with.

Thelonious Monk

It's mad any crime that happens in Ireland now you get all these "Why no description of the attackers????" comments from weirdos hoping it's foreigners and then they disappear and suddenly don't care if it's an Irish person committing the crime.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339186#Comment_120339186

Yes indeed. I always wonder at that mentality. Does it make a difference to the victim of the crime if the perpetrator is Irish or not? Maybe after a murder the police should issue a press statement reassuring the victim's family that the killer was Irish so they shouldn't feel as bad.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339172#Comment_120339172

I live in NRW and have lots of foreign friends. They seem perfectly happy here and haven't seen anything. I have read reports of the former east Germany and it sounded exactly like you described. It's the AfD heartland. Here I've seen plenty of stickers saying "Fcuk AfD". In some ways east and west Germany are still very different countries.

Grayson

I just saw a report which said that the shooter may be a former member. No confirmation yet. That would make sense. The JW are ridiculously strict and there's loads of reports of coercion and shunning.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339293#Comment_120339293

Yes it's a completely place Grayson. Sorry I posted too fast. I mean you wouldn't believe the difference in East and West. Here's an article about racism in east Germany.

https://www.dw.com/en/the-unexpected-costs-of-eastern-german-racism/a-16783432

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339314#Comment_120339314

If the person was baptised and had since been disfellowshipped or disassociated themselves, all of their family and friends would have shunned them. Literally wouldn't look at them if they saw them in the street. Keep in mind, you could be disfellowshipped for having pre-marital sex, looking at porn, smoking, celebrating any holidays like Christmas etc - the list is endless.

A lot of folks cant handle the shunning abuse and rejoin the religion cult just so they can have a relationship with their family and friends again.

Just to note that to 'rejoin', you have to go to meetings and sit at the back of the Kingdom Hall - nobody is allowed to talk to you until you are officially 'reinstated'.

By 'going to meetings' I mean a LOT of them. Back when I was in, a week went like this:

Monday evening - family bible study (1 hour)

Tuesday evening - group book study in someone's house you all went to as a family (usually took from 7pm till 9pm)

Thursday evening - Kingdom Ministry school - (7pm to 10pm at the Kingdom Hall)

Saturday Morning - Ministry, so knocking on people's doors.

Sunday Morning - Sunday meeting at the Kingdom hall. There would be a 1 hour talk followed by a questions and answers session on a part of The Watchtower magazine. (you'd usually be there from 10am till about 12:30pm) - a lot of folks would then go on the ministry again after this.

Keep in mind for all of this, you are suited and booted like a 1950s salesman.

Aside from all of this, you are also meant to engage in 'personal bible study' and 'Witness' to your colleagues in work, fellow students in school etc'

Not excusing the actions of the attacker, but I could see how the mental torture of the shunning practice after living through all of the above, week after week could push someone over the edge.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339480#Comment_120339480

It honestly sounds like psychological torture. I've read a load of articles about them and follow a few youtubers who were former members.

On the other side, every single JW I've met has been lovely. It's one of those weird situations where a religion can make otherwise nice people do horrible things.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339682#Comment_120339682

That's the big hook they get people with, they do the 'shiny happy people' thing without going overboard very, very well.

Yep, they're lovely people. However, they're really not allowed to express themselves truly as real people. What you're seeing isn't really them. You'll never see them angry, swearing, genuinely upset, it's all just smiling happy faces. If I went back to my local Kingdom Hall 20 years later, I'd be greeted with those same smiles and what seems like genuine interest - keep in mind these are people who haven't spoken to me in 20 years.

There's a phrase they use continually in their publications, to 'put on a new personality' - from Ephesians 4:24

Article here on their website where they try to put a positive spin on it, but it basically amounts to not really being yourself but taking on the whole Jehovah's Witness smiley happy people personality instead. It's all incredibly false.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-august-2017/put-on-keep-on-new-personality/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338407#Comment_120338407

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338590#Comment_120338590

The implication you're both making here is that the perpetrator was an immigrant. Have you any basis for this assertion, or is it just your own barely-concealed racism/sectarianism that's coming out to play?

JW is a Christian denomination. Are you both implying that we shouldn't allow Christian immigrants, or have you not thought that far ahead?

Kurooi

Mirror has a lot more detail, somehow

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-hamburg-church-shooting-gunman-29422006

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339854#Comment_120339854

All the racists on here will be devastated.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338590#Comment_120338590

You start your post with a completely unrelated comment about immigration despite the fact that gunman is not an immigrant. Do you know what's worse than immigration? Using a random mass murder as an excuse to make a point about immigration.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340449#Comment_120340449

the only reason this thread is quiet is because it wasn't a muslim

riffmongous

Damn

"Police confirmed that they had previously received an anonymous tip-off that raised concerns about the perpetrator's mental health. Officers had visited him after the tip-off - but did not have enough grounds to take away his gun at the time."

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341981#Comment_120341981

FFS might have been avoidable

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339853#Comment_120339853

Hardly a stretch to imagine these shootings could be carried out by islamists. This one may not have been but I make no apologies for assuming it may be an Islamic terrorist attack given the recent history in Europe of attacks. It’s down to good police surveillance that we do not experience more of them.

Btw I’m not sure you give much of a damn who it was or how many died so long as you can soapbox your anti racism credentials.

Jarhead_Tendler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339186#Comment_120339186

This happened in Germany lad. Hamburg is in Germany not Ireland

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342347#Comment_120342347

Why would I give a flying f about who the shooter is? A German shooter is the same as an immigrant shooter. One isn't worse than the other.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346629#Comment_120346629

It’s a big sense of relief for you when the shooter isn’t an immigrant.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342347#Comment_120342347

You made a presumption, loaded with bias, and you were wrong. Instead of carrying out some introspection to examine this bias and see where you might possibly learn from this mistake, you now double down and confirm to the entire Internet that you are a proud bigot, happy to discriminate against a quarter of the people on the planet.

Then you accuse me of soapboxing 😂😂😂

I’m not sure you give much of a damn who it was or how many died so long as you can soapbox your anti racism credentials

There you go making assumptions again, see what I mean about learning from your mistakes?..........no, actually, you probably don't.