Is it silly to go for an EV with no homecharging?

unkel

I used to spend €50 a week on petrol. For less than average annual mileage. The first year in my EV cost me about €30 in electricity. Yes, for the year 😁

slave1

Ah we're no longer on those electricity rates, things are not looking good for night rate charging now in the mid-long term versus last year or so

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120349917#Comment_120349917

WTF is happening with bonkers? I just ran a search for the best deal on Gas & Electric. We use about 15,000kWh per year (60% on night rate). The only 2 offers that came up were Electric Ireland (our current provider) and PrePay Power.

slave1

Energia pulled their EV plan, big kick in the nuts for us

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120350767#Comment_120350767

I only signed up to it 2 weeks ago

slave1

You did well, in before the end, nice buffer for the next yr

VikingG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348029#Comment_120348029

Just as an FYI revenue has said that there is no BIK on charging as long as it is available to ALL employees. Page 13 below

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-05/05-01-01b.pdf

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120349615#Comment_120349615

How did you manage that?

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120349917#Comment_120349917

Hopefully electricity prices start to fall soon and with duty coming back on petrol we will begin to see divergence.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352632#Comment_120352632

This was 6 years ago, back then all public charging was free. Also my home electiricty provider was "Just Energy", a Canadian based utility provider, who in their ultimate wisdom, offered me an unlimited electricity plan for the same money I paid my previous provider 😁

Mike2006

I have an EV and I have a very similar commute to the OP (~120kms/day) round trip to work.

I have a Model 3 RWD LFP (60kWhr battery).

Personally, I would not own an EV if I did not have (7kW) home charging capability. I typically charge my car every 2nd night. In theory, I could get 3 round trips to work between charges but the reality is that I have probably 3 or 4 smaller trips every couple of days so I charge second night.

I charge while I am asleep so there is no inconvenience or waiting for chargers/charging or commuting to charge etc... This would be the big issue for me I think. Granny charger will only add ~80% of my daily commute in the 7 hr charging window that I have on reduced rate electricity).

Public charging can be as expensive as purchasing petrol or diesel (I recently paid 70c/kWhr at Ionity for example).

I am a big advocate for EV, but in the right situation only and for me - that means having charging capability at home..

Fingleberries

In a similar situation to the previous poster.

I began with my EV (Model 3 LFP, SR+) and had no home charger: I had office charging at work (60km from home), and an Ionity about 5km away from home.

It was doable. I would charge 2x per week at the office and then fill up using the Ionity if I had any road trips planned for the weekend, etc. That being said, after installing a home charger it removed a lot of the stresses I didn't realise I had about charging. It made it easier to rock up at home on the electric equivalent of fumes and let it charge overnight (without having to plan in an additional 30+ minute stay at Ionity*).

If you're going that route, and have reliable work charging and a decent fast charger within 10 mins or so from home, it can be done with all the caveats others have shared earlier. It's worth shopping around for a service like Elli that can get you ESB DC charging and Ionity (if local to you) at a decent rate if you subscribe.

If any of the above are missing, it may be challenging, but not impossible. Just requires a little more forethought for your charging strategy.

*In fairness, though, I did catch up a lot on my Netflix backlog while I was charging at the ionity 🙂

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120348029#Comment_120348029

Unfortunately some companies are being a bit more careful now with this so in my case business rates would apply to avoid BIK situation.

No free charge for employees any more (for privately owned cars) and let's be honest this is very likely going to be a standard soon.

crisco10

I think the answer really is it depends.

1) what's the public (and SuC) network like very locally? For example, if you lived in Sandyford area, you'd be sorted, SuC and an abundance of AC around the industrial estate

2) do you want an EV for its low running costs ? (public charging will make this harder to achieve)

3) could you even granny charge the odd time if you get home and just need some kWH to get you out of a spot?

I wouldn't base your purchase decision on availability of charging at work, as others have said, there are lots of variables there that could easily change. Free work charging would just be a bonus.

VikingG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120354514#Comment_120354514

Companies may want to charge to recover the cost but there is no BIK confusion, revenue have been quite clear in that there is no BIK of charging private cars if charging is made available to all employees equally. Could revenue change in the future, of course they could, but for now it is clear.

slave1

Revenue employees are charging for free at work so they have no incentive to tax it

munchkin_utd

No free charge for employees any more (for privately owned cars) and let's be honest this is very likely going to be a standard soon.

I like putting numbers on things to get a handle of what we are dealing with. So.... we are currently in an environment of rising energy costs which are not likely to go back to what they were any time, ever.

From what I can see, electric ireland charges 43.27c per kwh as standard so I'll take that as a given more or less for daytime rates.

A user above says they charge a 60kwh Tesla every second day at work. Say thats done by everyone, thats 30kwh average per car per day, so €13 per car charge per day, or €65 per week, or a shade over 3grand per year in free electricity per car.

I am sure the calculation can be picked apart but is it really sustainable that a company showers one portion of their employees with free travel/ fuel and not the others ?

Project forward, suppose a company has a car park with 200 places and only 10 or 20 free chargers - who gets to have a commute paid for by their company ? Its all grand now that a few early adopters are sharing the few free chargers between them but it will be interesting to see how it pans out when the electricity amounts and friction increases.

Local to me I see that BMW has about 750 chargers in one of their car parks but thats not free and is ran commercially (which also gives the impression of TONS of public chargers even though the public cannot access them) and realistically thats one of the few practical ways of rationing all that free energy that every commuter car will be looking to tap into when parked at work within a few years.

wonski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120357003#Comment_120357003

Thanks for clarifying, this is the reason they told me but probably they just wanted to save some money and didn't want to tell the actual reason.

They installed dozen of them so it is probably to prevent staff from taking advantage of it then.

JimiMac

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346312#Comment_120346312

Why don't you use esb chargers anymore? Doesn't seem to be much else for public charging?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120363854#Comment_120363854

It's the ESB DC chargers he said he doesn't use. Seems to use the AC (destination chargers).

I can understand this. Ecars DC chargers are too often busy, blocked or broken. Not to be relied on at this time.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120363854#Comment_120363854

Exactly what @...Ghost... said. The ESB chargers are slow, don't work and very busy SPOFs. Why bother? Just posted earlier a charging experience at Ionity. And that's not the fastest charging I've seen. Between Ionity, SuC, EasyGo plus destination charging I simply don't have the need to use those charges I just described.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120352644#Comment_120352644

I hope electricity prices fall as well but I don't see why EV drivers are hoping that fuel prices will raise just to create a divergence in cost of driving EVs v ICEs. Is is because it better justifies their decision to drive an EV? Increasing fuel prices will effect a lot of people who have no option in the short term.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365233#Comment_120365233

Well in our house we have petrol, diesel and electric so in reality we have a foot in both camps.

It's all a gamble really, like people putting in (or being forced into) underfloor and heat pumps and then finding it's very expensive to run.

In 5 or 10 years time the car market could see greatly increased supply of cheap EVs but huge tolls, parking and congestion.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365273#Comment_120365273

I have diesel and electric also but I'm also conscious that a lot of people will only have ICEs for the foreseeable future until the supply of affordable used EVs increases. In the meantime I just don't think it's necessary for EV drivers to wish for increased fuel prices to make ICE drivers lot even more difficult than it is already

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365356#Comment_120365356

I get what you are saying but new EV's are so expensive to buy its a lot cheaper keep an existing ICE on the road.

In 5 years we could see EV's come down in price to a range that a lot more people can afford them.

It is wrong what the government are doing with duty though.

Duty should be pegged again open market petrol prices, and rise and fall if petrol goes below €1.50, above €2 etc.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365429#Comment_120365429

I don't have any issues incentivising EV sales / running costs to accelerate the transition to EVs. However, equally I don't subscribe to the view that existing ICE owners should be penalised while this transition is ongoing.

Granted the price of fuel is driven for the most part by the market and we know that the rogue Oil States (and the likes of Norway, that bastion of environmental and social advocacy) as well as the oil industry generally are busy gorging on the super profits generated on the back of high prices justified by pseudo environmental concerns and the convenient Ukrainian war. I just think the Govt could acknowledge more the serious impact this market driven price gouging is having on ordinary motorists and hold off reinstating duty increases until the market stabilises somewhat or the EV transition has gained significant traction. It looks though that the green agenda will trump any sentiment of solidarity that we are all in this together. As always in this country, and to be fair elsewhere, some citizens / residents are more equal than others. Rant over (for now)