You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

nachouser

Nothing then? It's kinda like this thread is just who can hang on longer to not reply and then it all gets lost in the ether.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801837#Comment_120801837

Ok Overheal, if you can't be civil I'm not entertaining your posts.

If you think I've posted waffle it should be easy to quote the waffle filled posts and deconstruct them.

All you're doing here is looking for an argument. I'm not biting.

nachouser

Kinda still waiting on why we should all be shaking in our boots about the left?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801847#Comment_120801847

No, the detail is here...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288119/youve-been-looking-in-the-wrong-direction-the-dangers-are-coming-from-the-left

You're just being unreasonable.

I've posted a lot of factual information on this thread in good faith, it feels like you're trying to make sure that information gets lost if I'm being honest.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801853#Comment_120801853

Do you have an opinion to share on the topic?

nachouser

I'm really not. That's from March. So, nothing to really back up that there are any tangible dangers coming from the left.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801643#Comment_120801643

I put forward an argument based on provable facts.

You did, that’s not in dispute, and contrary to your belief, I do agree with what you’re saying as far as the facts of your argument go. Where we diverge is when you attempt to cobble all those facts together and attempt present them as credible and compelling evidence of a threat to society from the Left. It’s completely contradictory to your earlier conclusion about the Left -

That's the problem with the left, all moral crusades and paranoid nonsense and no real actionable ideas that benefit anyone.

It is also an incontrovertible fact that a problem with the Left (not just the problem, a problem, because there are many!) are all moral crusades and paranoid nonsense and no real actionable ideas that benefit anyone.

That’s where the idea of Schrödinger’s Left emerges from - they cannot possibly be both moral crusaders perpetuating paranoid nonsense and having no real actionable ideas that benefit anyone, while at the same time, you’re arguing that they should be regarded as a credible danger to society.

I might be convinced if there were any evidence you could point to of their form in Government that has been detrimental to Irish society, but there isn’t, because they’ve never had that opportunity, and they aren’t likely to have that opportunity at any point in the future.

On nachousers request - it was framed politely, there was no demand of anyone to provide the information being requested, and I thought about helping them out, because it is a long thread, but then I realised I couldn’t come up with anything. I knew you had tried to present some evidence as though it should be regarded as case closed, that’s it, dangers to society are coming from the Left… but it wasn’t compelling, and on that basis wasn’t worth repeating.

There were no snotty demands, or snark, or demands that anyone play by their rules. You read far more into that than could be considered reasonable, which leaves you in a poor position to assess whether others are being paranoid, especially when you compound your efforts by failing to convince anyone who wasn’t already so paranoid as to believe they were in danger from the Left, and then try and shift the responsibility for your failure onto them as though they are at fault.

I’m sometimes asked for a summary of my posts, I don’t mind providing it, as I tend to treat others as I would wish to be treated, particularly in online discussions where good faith is not just required, it’s a necessity. Otherwise the discussion descends into the kind of petty squabbling matches that are often a feature of parliamentary debate nowadays. At least we’re all spared the indignity of Ruth Coppinger removing her knickers and swinging them about her head in protest at the fact that she has failed to convince anyone that men are a danger to women. That’s what I call a poor standard of discussion, as the only thing Ruth managed to prove was that she was more of a danger to herself than any man 😒

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801867#Comment_120801867

Can you seriously read the last few posts from. Nachouser and say with a straight face that they're being polite?

I'm not responding to the rest of your post. What's the point? We disagree, you should just accept that.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801851#Comment_120801851

Laughable. I've just read you do this same cop out with a few users in succession, including in the aforementioned waffle. "Boo hoo" you said to one user, you have no standing to crow civility at me for the above post of mine.

I already deconstructed the waffle down to it's base element: your proclamation of a danger of Sinn Fein winning government and giving away free stuff. I'm just trying to understand what the real dangers are, the general purpose of this thread. You haven't offered any specifics on what capital you are concerned would be nationalized or what property or services would be given away for free?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801866#Comment_120801866

Click back two pages.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801879#Comment_120801879

Where did I say Sinn Fein are going to be "giving away free stuff"? I didn't say that. You're misrepresenting me purposefully to goad me.

And the "boo hoo" thing was removed because it wasn't civil, it was there for less than a minute and the post was edited because it wasn't acceptable.

You always engage in bad faith and look to start arguments with me. My experience of you has been universally negative. You've been nothing but abusive towards me on this site.

Goodbye Overheal.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801874#Comment_120801874

I was only commenting on their initial post.

I accept we disagree on some things at least, but the point of reading my posts is that I would expect you would take them into consideration and give your own position some thought, or not, or attempt to find common ground without either of us having to repeat ourselves for those posters coming late to the discussion.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801881#Comment_120801881

I actually clicked back all the way. Jesus! The op is a, well, I don't want to get banned. So, defending this thread? Yeah. Not for me.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801915#Comment_120801915

I would if I wasn't being constantly quoted by people posting in bad faith.

I'll try to review it tomorrow if I get a chance.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801919#Comment_120801919

Take care. Bye.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801853#Comment_120801853

THOSE PESKY TRANS FOLK ARE ON THE MARCH...

for a bit of acceptance.

Overheal

You always engage in bad faith and look to start arguments with me.

This is categorically untrue and we have examples in this thread from the past week that evidence otherwise (re: religious establishment in Ireland).

It sounds like your irreconcilable and apparent grudge against me and a lack of any sensible argument about a danger coming from the left are the issue here, not my ability to engage in good faith. But I can see why pointing fingers and shutting people out is simpler to do than simply point out what these dangers are, or what you are worried will be nationalized and given away for free. I would still prefer if you simply elucidated upon your own argument that Sinn Fein wanted to nationalize things and promise free things, what things?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801929#Comment_120801929

Where did I say anything was going to be given away for free?

Quote me saying that and I'll reply to you.

The rest of your post is a typically insufferable attempt at moral grandstanding.

I'll wait for the quote about the things being given away for free.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801938#Comment_120801938

click back 2 pages.

The rest of your post is a typically insufferable attempt at moral grandstanding.

Again, 'Boo hoo,' 'used to be a mod here' you are standing in an awfully glass house to accuse anyone of moral grandstanding.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801946#Comment_120801946

I know I didn't say that Sinn Fein would be giving things away for free.

You made the claim so it's on you to prove it but you can't so you make a few smarmy remarks.

More bad faith posting, misrepresenting what I said previously, then refusing to provide evidence to back up what you said. Making glib remarks and more moral grandstanding.

What happened to "don't be a dick"?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801956#Comment_120801956

Click back two pages.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801976#Comment_120801976

Sinn Fein have said they can make miracles happen with housing etc. That doesn't equate to the actually giving things away for free, it means they're making claims that are unattainable like all political parties. That should be obvious.

PBP want to nationalise, private hospitals, the insurance industry, private land, transport, agri business, construction companies, the banking sector, the energy sector, peoples personal wealth, the list goes on...

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801992#Comment_120801992

As you say though, all political parties make unattainable claims, what makes Sinn Fein etc. and that coalition particularly noteworthy or dangerous in this regard though.

PBP want to nationalise, private hospitals, the insurance industry, private land, transport, agri business, construction companies, the banking sector, the energy sector, peoples personal wealth, the list goes on...

Which of these would you consider the few most dangerous/likely to be nationalized in a dangerous manner?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802032#Comment_120802032

Pursuing these "goals" would be financially devastating to the country. That's how they're dangerous as they would have a crippling effect on the Irish economy and by extension the people who live in this country.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802148#Comment_120802148

Do you have a link direct from the source saying they'd privatise people's personal wealth? As in a link direct from the source - none of this "x pages back" crap - either post it or you're scaremongering again.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802527#Comment_120802527

It’s like the quote feature is super hard to use or something?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802527#Comment_120802527

Sure...

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2022-05-25/3/

Here's a screen grab of it for ease of reference.

Ironically I'm in agreement with his sentiment, greedy fat cats are taking the p1ss while ordinary people suffer but the notion of "nationalising" things is so nebulous and impractical it just serves to underline Murphy and PBP's pie in the sky approach to social and political change.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803116#Comment_120803116

That's not ofifical party policy - you claimed the party wanted to do something, this is one individual expressing an opinion.

Do you or do you not have a link where the actually party - People Before Profit - has said that the nationalisation of private welath is part of their agenda?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803139#Comment_120803139

I didn't link to a tweet.

Paul Murphy made that point in a Dail debate(the link is to the official website for Dail Eireann) . He has made similar points in the Dail about all sorts of issues as I outlined previously. It isn't merely his opinion, he and his party colleagues regularly make statements in the Dail about nationalising a raft of different things.

Here is a link to People Before Profit's website, particularly their economic policy...

https://www.pbp.ie/policies/economic-policy/

I would suggest you navigate their website yourself, you will find references to nationalisation of various things, not much on how that could be achieved but it's there nonetheless.

Here is a summary of their economic policy taken from the above link for clarity...

I'm beginning to feel that no amount of evidence is good enough for some people. I've generously provided these links for you and everyone else in thread to read. I'm not obligated to do so and I don't appreciate the dismissive tone of your posts.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803259#Comment_120803259

Nope - a line saying "nationalisation of personal wealth" on an official manifesto or press release would have done the trick and that does not appear anywhere in the page you stated. Closest you've got is taxation and redistribution.

What you've done here is taken the phease "taxing the wealthy" and exaggerated it up to "nationalisation of personal wealth" in order to try and frighten people - give people the impression that one party with five seats might get into power as a very minor party in a coalation and then will be ae able to dictate the shots (with five seats remember) and take everyone's personal wealth away for the good of the nation. And that is most certainly scaremongering.

False claims and massively improbably scenarios is pretty much all you appear to have in order to portray your threats from the left, which is the point I made a few days and it's pretty much proven.