Is this a valid acceptable reason to end a tenancy?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378817#Comment_120378817

The OP does not have full control over the property until the tenant has moved out. Using emotive language about how they were paying for it long before the tenant arrived is not helpful when trying to regain posession.

spaceHopper

prepare the statutory decelerations yourself in it say you need it back for your brother. Don't mention selling it. Get it checked by a solicitor. When your brother finishes their own home you are then free to re-rent it but you need to give old tenant first refusal. You could leave it empty or sell it.

I don't know if you intend to charge your brother rent but if it's fully off the rental market for 24 months you can set the rent at the market rate.

Once you serve the notice on the tenant and RTB they have 28 days to contest it. After that I would assume it's deemed valid. The risk is that they will over hold and your brother won't be able to uses it. They would need a solid plan B. If they do over hold don't entertain any questions of the notice been valid, even from the RTB, the legislation says once served they have 28 days so hold them to that.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378624#Comment_120378624

It seems to me you hold a strange view in regards to someone's else asset.

When you go to a hotel, do you acquire extra rights over the hotel owner because you paid a week to stay there?

It is just the same with rental, you pay for the service of using other person asset. It is a service.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120377053#Comment_120377053

The board refuse to give legal advice. They have to resolve disputes and don't want people saying they relied on advice from the board at a dispute hearing.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376434#Comment_120376434

You need to be careful what you accept as "advice". There are posts here which tell you what the poster themselves thinks is "fair" or what the relevant laws and rules "should" be, not what they are. What something thinks a rule "should" be is irrelevant unless that person is a judge sitting in front of you or a legislator trying to change that rule/law.

It is something that a lot more people need to get their heads around before they willingly grant to other people possession of, and rights to, valuable assets they own.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378923#Comment_120378923

My view is not strange at all.

The OP appears to be holding an emotive view on the asset. This asset was rented out to the tenant (through a business agreement) who now legally holds certain rights over it. To come out with stuff about how they were paying for the asset long before the tenant is irrelevant when it comes to the legal agreement between the two parties. If the OP were to present this point to the tenant, it is likely just to piss the tenant off making them less accommodating to requests from the OP.

As for your hotel comparison, it isn't a fair comparison unless the OP was doing AirBnB because someone staying in a hotel is a guest and not a tenant. A hotel guest has no rights to the accommodation. The OP's tenant has legally enforcable rights!

Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379000#Comment_120379000

My wording may be poorly judged therefore I think it is best to employ a solicitor.

JoChervil

Marie, you can give a reason, that you are selling the house, which you intend to do anyway. And then put it on the market for a time your brother is not living there yet. And when your brother moves in, you can withhold the sale for few months.

Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379153#Comment_120379153

The issue I see here is if the tenant is allowed first refusal my brother won't be able to use the house.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379252#Comment_120379252

That's why discuss with a solicitor who deals with how best to approach, so you dont get tied up in knots regarding it being for brother/your use, make sure its accurate and cant be disputed imo,well worth a few hundred, you will have to ring around and see who says they have dealt with this kind of thing and it's a service they are willing and able to provide.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379252#Comment_120379252

When you find this solicitor who deals with tenants please do let us know and the cost involved in it.

The way I see it, more and more landlords will exit the market and the worse will get for general public.

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379252#Comment_120379252

But he is your brother. So if you could vacate the house for him, you also can offer it to him first. I think.

I remember, when I got a notice, it was written there that I have 28 days to write back to them that I am willing to return to the house, when/if it will be available again. So if they won't write to you in that period of time, you won't have to offer it to them. But it was few years ago. Things might have changed.

Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381484#Comment_120381484

My reply to your comment meant that I'm worried if I say that I'm selling, new legislation giving tenants first refusal to purchase will stop any plans for me to allow my brother to use the house.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378918#Comment_120378918

This is wrong on two counts and people have thanked the post. Shows the OP really should get professional advice.

1) The period during which the notice to the tenant can be contested is 90 days not 28 days.

2) Do not assume it hasn't been contested if you haven't heard back from the RTB by the end of the 90 day period. Tenant if planning on contesting could wait till the final day to contest it to elongate the process.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381933#Comment_120381933

Sorry shows how much I know and why LL's are selling. Used to be 28 days to contest it. Personally if the RTB accepted a case 28/90 days after aka on the last day I'd sue them for any cost and unpaid rent. The law is the law we all have to follow it.

@Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379000#Comment_120379000

This asset was rented out to the tenant (through a business agreement) who now legally holds certain rights over it.

As does the landlord, one of which is the right to do what the OP is trying to do. You can't crow about a tenant's legal rights and their landlord's contractual obligations while ignoring the OPs legal rights and the tenant's obligations.

@Marie1976 "Sorry I picked you up wrong. I didn't think the RTB were helpful to landlords, I thought they were pro tenant."

They claim to be completely independent, but this is hogwash. Ask anyone with any experience of dealing with them and you'll see your above statement is correct. There are certain issues where they'll point blank refuse to talk to you if you're a landlord. If you're ever seeking advice from them, call up and pretend to be a tenant and that your landlord is threatening to do [insert what you actually want to do] and they'll speak to you readily enough.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382626#Comment_120382626

As does the landlord, one of which is the right to do what the OP is trying to do. You can't crow about a tenant's legal rights and their landlord's contractual obligations while ignoring the OPs legal rights and the tenant's obligations.

I never said that either side had obligations. I merely made the point that the tenant currently has rights to the property when the OP posted this and that by mentioning this would not be helpful in any discussion between the two parties...

at the end of the day the house belongs to me. I was paying for it long before the tenant was on the scene.

I know you never mentioned obligations.......that's my point, though, with those rights come certain obligations, namely GTFO when the landlord needs it back. You said "The tenant has rights", as if that trumps everything else. The landlord also has rights (to reclaim the property), and (in this instance) they supercede the tenant's rights (to remain in the property and use it as their home).

In this case, the tenant's rights mean SFA when held up against the OPs.

DownByTheGarden

All the tenant has to do here, and will be encouraged to do by all, is to easily manipulate the time they are overholding property to last until your brothers house is finished and your reason to have a family member in the property is gone. You are better off serving notice on the grounds that you are selling and just be done with it.

Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382887#Comment_120382887

My brother said he would be quite happy to wait until he can use my house before starting construction work as it will save him considerable costs.

How will the tenants manipulate this?

I also do not have to specify a reason other than he wishes to use the house.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383097#Comment_120383097

I know people waiting on tenants to vacate for over 4 years now. Rest assured, if they dont want to move, they wont be moving.

Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383195#Comment_120383195

I agree they might be able to delay but not indefinitely.

Do you mind me asking why it's taking so long? Did the landlord make mistakes with the notice?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383213#Comment_120383213

Different in both cases. One of them was out by a day on some date specified on the notice. Back to square one. Then you had tenants having nervous breakdowns and getting new dates, which were very far off in the future. Then you had eviction bans. And now they are still stalling (nervous breakdown again). Any excuse will push it out and if they want to stay they will know this.

Tenants can delay for years without much effort. They are coached by charities on doing this if they ask them how to do it. Anyway not every tenant is like that, so hopefully if you have a good relationship wioth yours they will play ball for the dates you want. Just make sure you push them to start looking as soon as you give notice though instead of only starting lookng in the last few weeks.

Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383374#Comment_120383374

Thanks. Wow is it any wonder that landlords are fleeing.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120383517#Comment_120383517

Its no wonder at all. Any landlords staying after the last eviction ban really have only themselves to blame when they are ruined by more legislation in the years to come. They may never get their property back, even to sell up.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120382471#Comment_120382471

The law is the law and we all have to follow it but if the RTB accepted a case within the time frames set down by legislation you'd sue them?

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372382#Comment_120372382

I agree with the poster. It's a terrible thing to do for something so trivial. I'm long out of Ireland but it would do you good to imagine how disruptive this will be to someone's life in the current climate.

Yes you're of course allowed to do it but we're also allowed to make judgements on the character of those who do it.

Marie1976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386963#Comment_120386963

Thanks for your comment. When I rented first I don't remember it being mandatory to provide housing for life.

I do not view supporting a family member over a non family member as trivial. Perhaps you don't value family to the same extent.

Any step I take will be done to the letter of the law.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384821#Comment_120384821

If the tenant get 180 day notice and has 90 days to contest the notice then opens a case on day 179 which the RTB accept I'd be pissed and would push to have the case dropped or push them for compensation for taking the case when original 90 days had lapsed

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387556#Comment_120387556

Clearly youve never dealt with the RTB :)