Most beneficial way to split a title deed

Chevy RV

Hello Everybody,

I would appreciate any help /advice you can provide in relation to the splitting the deed of my property.

I own a farm with a house on it in which I live. I was hoping to do up the house and upgrade the house in terms insulation/heating /etc.

In order to borrow money to complete the job, banks would require the house to be separated from the land so that they can get a lien on it.

What is the cheapest and most efficient way to achieve this and how much is it likely to cost in legal fees?

Is there any way to put the legal aspects out to tender to try to get a reasonable fee level for the job?

Thanks for your help/suggestions.

Regards,

Chevy RV

Claw Hammer

Is the land (including the house) registered with the PRAI?

Chevy RV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411965#Comment_120411965

Hello Claw Hammer,

The land and house are not registered with the PRAI as far as I know as there is no loans secured on them or it was not sold since 01/06/2011

Claw Hammer

Just because it has no mortgage and hasn't been sold since 2011 doesn't mean it is not registered with the PRAI There are properties registered since the 19th century which don't have mortgages and have never been sold. Have you looked at Landdirect.ie?

Chevy RV

Hello Claw Hammer,

My apologies. I thought it would not be but you are right and it is in fact registered on Landirect.ie

What has that got to do with splitting the title though or the cheapest legal options to do that?

Thanks,

Chevy RV

Peregrinus

You can't "split a title deed" in the sense of having a house registered and owned separately from the land on which it stands. The house is part of the land; whoever owns the land owns any building on the land.

So what you're going to need to do is divide up the farm into two separate properties — (a) the land on which the house stands, plus presumably any garden, driveway, etc that serves the house, and (b) the rest of the farm. The division will have to be done in a way that makes sense, e.g. the land on which the house stands needs access to the public road. (Otherwise it's not worth very much, and won't be an acceptable security to the bank.) You need to apply to the PRAI to create a separate folio for the land on which the house stands.

You'll need a solicitor, obviously, and probably also a surveyor who will draw up the plan of subdivision of the existing folio into two. I don't think there's an especially cheap way to do this, but it's not a major drama. If the house is anybody's family home you'll need to comply with the Family Home Protection Act requirements and get the consent of affected spouses.

On edit: I'd add that, as well as subdividing the farm, you'd be well advised to put up a proper fence, hedge or other permanent boundary marker along the new boundary between the two subdivided parts (if there isn't one there already). If that isn't done memories will fade very quickly as to where the boundary lies, and people get mistaken ideas, and that lead to endless grief and possibly expensive disputes or difficulties with later sales. Always mark your boundaries.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417373#Comment_120417373

It has everything to do with splitting the title since the procedure would be different if the title was not registered. As for the cheapest way to do it you should not be fixated on the cost of it. Get a reliable competent solicitor and pay a reasonable price. You wouldn't necessarily deal with the cheapest roofer, electrician, plumber etc so why skimp on something as important as this?

Chevy RV

Thanks Peregrinus and Claw Hammer,

Any idea what "a reliable competent solicitor and pay a reasonable price" - might in fact be?

The fence should be easy enough. It would probably need an engineer /surveyor to mark out the house and a small plot around it from the rest of the farm.

It is the legal cost that I am trying to establish.

Regards,

Chevy RV

Claw Hammer

The fee will depend on the amount of work involved. You don't seem to know much about it. If a bank lends money with property as security they will want a charge over it nd a certificate of title from a solicitor. Most likely they will also insist that the monies are paid to the solicitor for onward transmission to the borrower. Do you know why the banks will want the tile to the land to be separated from the title to the house? Are you sure it is necessary at all?

Chevy RV

Hello Claw Hammer,

I know it would be a secured loan against the title of the house. That is why the bank would need need the house deed split from the rest of the farm. You still have not provided me with any idea of the legal job that is involved or the likely cost of same.

I would also assume that an engineer/surveyor would need to mark out the boundary so that the title could be split and this is a separate cost.

It is just an estimate of likely cost is all i am after. I thought somebody on here might be able to provide one.

Thanks,

Chevy RV

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120441259#Comment_120441259

Solicitors will provide an estimate if you ask.

Fees for property related legal services vary widely in my experience so get a few estimates.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120441259#Comment_120441259

Has the bank told you they would want a new title? Why wouldn't the bank take a charge over the whole lot, house and land?creating a new folio alone will cots nearly 1k in Land Registry fees alone, before you even get into paying an engineer and a solicitor. The cheapest thing to do would be to leave it as is and give the bank a charge over the entire holding.

Chevy RV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444147#Comment_120444147

Hello Claw Hammer, I am sure the bank would have no problem with taking a charge over the entire lot which is 75 Acres. Even on a bad day that is worth 10 times what I am looking to borrow to refurbish the house. That would then preclude me from using the rest of the land as any type of security in the future without getting the banks permission to do so ...... i don't think so

Victor

If doing a split, it might make sense to be thinking into the future - wills, marriage, children, giving / selling housing sites to people, etc. and see what is pragmatic. Talk to the solicitor about this.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444532#Comment_120444532

So you want to split it as a protection of another asset.

You should have been clearer in your opening post.

call around to your local solicitors in the area they would be most familiar with handling property modifications in the region. It's not necessarily region specific BTW but sometimes there are common themes depending on the history of the property/land. They should be able to give you an estimate .

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444532#Comment_120444532

The bank will want a list of all of your assets when making a loan. They will note that you have just extracted the house from the parent folio and are only offering the house as security. A bank will not be impressed. In any event there is no reason why you can't charge the whole lot and if you want to borrow more money just re-mortgage. You are looking for someone to carry out legal work which may ultimately not avail you. Any solicitor you approach is likely to be wary of you and will charge accordingly.

Peregrinus

The bank will fine with splitting the property into two properties, and only offering one of them as security for the loan. All the bank cares about is whether the security offered is adequate for the loan. If it is, then the bank doesn't care that you also have another property which you are not offering as security. If you have enough property, keeping some of it mortgage-free is quite normal.