Considering renting for 6-8 months while working abroad, Ukrainian refugees easiest option?

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410251#Comment_120410251

No mortgage thankfully, but yeah I'll prob give my accountant a shout about it.

I have several months to decide what to do so interesting to get the views in here before digging in deeper.

Someone I know has rented their place to a quiet female Chinese student, so that sounds like the ideal tenant 🤣

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410217#Comment_120410217

If it's rent a room then the person is a Licensee and not tenant, they have near zero rights. The problem is that if the OP gets people and then moves out to go traveling. When they come back they could claim that they are not Licensee's but tenants as the LL (OP) doesn't live there. They go to RTB, it takes two months to even get a hearing over the phone. They win the op loses, then they have to give them say 90 days notice to leave on day 88 they send a letter disputing it to the RTB new case, they could easily drag it out for two years. All the while they have stopped paying rent so OP is paying their mortgage.

The perception is that in all but exceptional cases the RTB will side with the occupier or tenant and not with the LL. The tenant can make any number of mistakes but if the LL makes so much as typo on a form they are screwed. If you have to give a tenant say 240 days notice to leave and you give them the correct from which you copy to the RTB in the correct way. They have 90 days to contest the notice. But the RTB will accept a case from the tenant on day 240 if they are in the mood.

This is one reason why so many LL's are selling, it's a better time to sell than be a LL.

The other is a pure rental is valued by the rental income it generates in year x N where in is between 9 and 20 years. I use 15. If you have an apartment valued at 400k on the open market but if there is tenant with lifetime right to occupy it on 2 percent incremental rent. Then if it was rent for less than 2220 a month it is devalued by having a tenant there. And only another investor will buy it. There aren't many of them

Say it was rented for 1800 then it's worth 1800 x 12 x 15 = 324,000. And the max capital growth you can ever get is 2% but it could be less if inflation is lower than 2 percent. Say you have a good tenant and you don't put the rent up for a number of years you can easily fall into this trap. They move out, you can't increase the rent for the next tenant they, then they acquire right to indefinite occupation due to new law.

OP what I'd do is delay traveling. Get people to house share with you get to know them. Save the money. Then either take short 3 month breaks or empty the house, and go traveling.

Oh and if the OP gets somebody, they could sublet it to somebody else and then OP is trying to evict somebody else's tenant.

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410477#Comment_120410477

Landlords can't win, neither can home owners who may want to rent their house short term like OP, but are terrified to!

I have a friend who has a house in Blanchardstown, 3 storey, 4 bedroom. He has been approached countless times to rent it out but he is far too scared by what's happening in the market. Right now he is in another county minding his elderly mother who has a terminal illness, but if and when he needs his house back he is too worried he won't get tenants out. So it remains empty....... for the last 18 months. This is the monster the Government and the opposition have created . Anyone who owns a home is a villain, Govt are advising people to overhold.

SF and People before Profit are even worse. There will be no private landlords left very soon.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411938#Comment_120411938

or choose the quiet asian student and try my luck that won't happen 😂

Former colleague was given an opportunity to work in San Francisco for a year decided to rent out two rooms in his house and keep one for himself while he was gone, he believed that it would be easy to remove the licensees on his return. His dad would check in on the place from time to time but after four months the two licensees had a disagreement and one moved out. The one that remained changed the locks and claimed that they were a tenant and not a licensee as the landlord didn't live there. It took him a over a year to get him out, he stopped paying rent when he knew he was going to be evicted, he destroyed the house and my colleague only had a deposit of one month for a single room. He had to come back from San Francisco early and had to live with his parents until he got the house back and renovated.

enricoh

Rent it out to someone refurbishing their house or else forget about it. Worst case scenario their builder takes an extra couple of months to get their house done.

thehairygrape

I’d leave it empty. Hopefully you have a family member of good friend to check it out occasionally. No wonder there’s a housing shortage when this is the best advice most posters can give. But that’s the Governments problem, not the OP’s.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120412336#Comment_120412336

The quite student may not be as quite when you try to evict them and there's nowhere for them to go. You can make €14000 tax free but you are risking loosing a lot more because the rental crisis isn't going to get better in the next few years, so anyone who moves in will be difficult to remove.

Another risk is the current government collapses and an SF coalition of populist parties changes the law with regards to the rights of licencees

With no mortgage leave it vacant.

Toby22

Hi, one family member had a nightmare when trying to move back into their own property after renting it. I have a friend who when current tenant leaves is selling up as she has had so much grief. Leave your property empty

sparkledrum

What a mess the government have made! I've gone abroad and rented rooms out in the past ( as a licensee) but I wouldn't do it now. It's too risky. I'd leave it empty or have a house sitter to mind it.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409065#Comment_120409065

Because the contract is a licence the 6 months rule does not apply. Also you do NOT have to register with the RTB . The €800 / mt be age USC is tax free but probably subject to the other taxes

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414131#Comment_120414131

It is the county council that pays the €800 and not the tenant. What I do not know is that if there is a one year licence agreement in place and the co council do not want to extend it for the same tenant then is it between the landlord and licensee only re getting the tenant out of the LL wants the property back

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414131#Comment_120414131

If it’s a license rather than tenancy, why would there be a problem with over holding? The owner needs only to give reasonable notice, if the licensee refuses to leave, then their stuff can just be put outside the door. A licensee doesn’t have the protection of the RTA so no reason to stand on ceremony.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414170#Comment_120414170

As has been said here already if the licencee disputes with the rtb and claims the OP wasn’t living there at all then it becomes a farce.

The fact is inviting anyone into your house to rent it (or a room therein) is not 100% risk free and the OP may well encounter problems on his return.

If this is their only place to live when they’re home again it’s not a good idea to rent it.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414108#Comment_120414108

They would be a tenant as opposed to a licence.

*if you insist that they are a licencee (which they are not) they can request to become a tenant. Which can’t be reasonably refused

under which basis are they a licencee?

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/licences

the landlord is not lining with them.

mrcheez

An apartment block near me rents out exclusively to a large corporation (probably Google) and new tenants move in regularly and stay for 2-3 months.

Maybe something like that might be better?

Not sure how you go about arranging something like that though.

thinkabouit

Interesting reading,

depressing really that the best option is you’re better off leaving it empty in a housing crisis with record rents to be made.

mrcheez

I'm surprised that the Ukrainian refugee ARP scheme (which I originally thought would be less risky due to govt involvement) has similar potential issues... although probably less risk of non-payment of the €800

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414170#Comment_120414170

Imagine OP is off on their travels while the licensee is in the house. Licensee is recording all the dates the OP is there. OP throws all their stuff out on the road and boots them out. They go to the RTB, RTB find that they were a tenant. A lovely bath in the newspapers for the landlord along with $$$$$ he has to pay to the now tenant, who can probably move back in at that point if they feel like it too :O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414563#Comment_120414563

The companies tend to want longer term leases and probably wouldn't be interested if the OP wanted to keep their stuff in the house.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414688#Comment_120414688

I’d be concerned that tenant law would overrule any “contract” that the dept of children have agreed with a homeowner.

I mean, in everything but name, a family from Ukraine are exactly the same as any other tenant who has sole use of the property. You can do a 1 year lease with any tenant but after 6 months part iv kicks in regardless and it doesn’t matter if the lease said they’d vacate in 365 days. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were legal challenges taken regarding the housing for Ukrainians contract.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414823#Comment_120414823

Wait til a few people want houses now occupied by refugees back and we will soon find out where everyone stands.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414881#Comment_120414881

I pondered with the idea of offering my entire property but there’s this little voice at the back of my mind saying “are you sure it’s safe?”

I don’t want to be the test case so I’ll wait and see before I ponder any more.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414606#Comment_120414606

Overholding and long eviction timelines are an ongoing issue that could be remedied easily but has not been considered by the state. The state appear to encourage overholding.

If you are a long term landlord its a risk you have to take but you need to think very carefully about giving your home to somebody else especially if you intend moving back after only a short period. While there are record rents to be had but there are also record costs currently associated with providing rental properties.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414330#Comment_120414330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414748#Comment_120414748

DownByTheGarden, the post you replied to, @Field east was outlining the term under which the Government is paying to house Ukrainians fleeing the war, the Government does not allow for a rental agreement to exist between the owner and the Ukrainians and no rent is actually paid, it is defined as a “recognition payment” of €800 per month. So they are licensees, no tenants.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120415352#Comment_120415352

Not on paper, no rent is paid, they are guests in your house. The Government are clear on this.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/bdba1-local-authorities-launch-appeal-for-unoccupied-properties-to-house-people-fleeing-the-war-in-ukraine/

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120415346#Comment_120415346

Makes no difference to what i just said. The OP should ask the RTB is there any chance that this could be a tenancy before they leave.

And try putting a Ukrainian refugees stuff out on the road, even if you are 100% in the right, and see how long before you are on the front page of all the papers and on prime time.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120415398#Comment_120415398

Please stop, this information is readily available on the gov.ie website.

• • it does not create a landlord and tenant relationship between the accommodation host who has qualified for the financial contribution and the Ukrainians living in the accommodation

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/e03af-accommodation-recognition-payment-scheme-general-information/

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120415429#Comment_120415429

That means nothing. It sounds sad, but thats where we are. What is the the op going to do if they come home and the person in their house decides they dont want to leave? Tell us. And tell us how and how long it will take before the OP gets to move back into their house?

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120415429#Comment_120415429

As I just posted on another thread, it doesn't matter anymore what the legal relationship is, or what is quoted on government websites, the fundamental issue is that small, private lessors have totally lost confidence in the government's handling of the rental market and won't trust them to protect property rights.

It's nearly impossible to restore that confidence in the required timeframe - it's going to take an awful long time.