Trans Woman School shooting TN

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416303#Comment_120416303

I wonder if you see how offensive this is to people who died from actual domestic terrorism.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416303#Comment_120416303

Lots of things lead to children and people being killed in the US.

There were 31,785 car deaths in the US in 2022 - does that mean the US Automotive Lobby are domestic terrorists too? They persist even though there are thousands upon thousands of deaths related to the product their agenda pushes.

480,000 smoking deaths each year. More domestic terrorism?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416303#Comment_120416303

This incident undoubtedly constitutes domestic terrorism in your opinion, and that’s fine, I’m not going to argue with that, but what I will take issue with is using fallacious logic to cast anyone who doesn’t share your opinions as being responsible for some looper who decides to commit murder.

The RTE report here tries the same sort of distracting the reader, and what’s worse is that their efforts draw even more attention to the use of language, same as what happens when you use terms like ‘domestic terrorism’ -

Earlier, Nashville police chief John Drake told reporters that the shooter, Audrey Hale, had been receiving treatment for an "emotional disorder," and that Hale's parents believed their child - who lived at home with them - had bought and later resold a single gun.

But Hale, who was killed during the attack, was armed with two assault rifles and a handgun upon entering the small Christian academy of about 200 students, which the shooter had once attended as a pupil.

https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2023/0329/1366930-nashville-shooting/

Hale wasn’t a child, they were 28, and they weren’t killed during the attack either. They were responsible for the attack on the school in the first place, which ended when Hale was shot dead by police.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416136#Comment_120416136

I won't be popular here but anyway, here's my two cents.

I can understand why the NRA and other organisations don't want to give an inch even if the suggestion is a practical, logical thing to do. Because if you give an inch, the Government will come back for another inch, and another inch and so on and eventually only criminals will have guns.

This is clearly evident here in Ireland. In my lifetime, there was the 1972 Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order, 1972 where legislation dictated that any pistol/revolver had to be handed up temporarily for a period of 1 month. Same for any rifle of a calibre above .22lr. The legislation clearly said 1 month. 30 years later the Government still hadn't returned most of the guns. Many of these guns were never returned to their lawful owners (plenty of owners now dead) Typically, many guns weren't released from 'temporary custody' until 2003.

Then more recently, certain types of pistol competitions were outlawed here, and then in 2009 certain types of handguns used by target shooters were made restricted and new licences can't be given out for them any more. Target shooters could no longer licence them. Essentially this was the death of the sport as no new people can join. Then new sets of ammo storage regulations and magazine restrictions were brought in. There's many more And now certain types of rifles are about to be banned and anyone who had a licence since 18th September 2015 for these firearms will have those licences recinded with no compensation. It's death to our hobby/sport/livelihood/way of life by 1000 cuts. Compromise with the Government gets us nowhere here. They just keep coming back taking more and more and more. I'm shortly going to lose a rifle and kit that cost me over €8000 and for what? I've been licenced on this gun since 2017 and have used it in competitions. I'm a law abiding target shooter who is fully licenced, trained and who takes part in National and International shooting competitions. I'm no threat to a school or anybody else for that matter.

Being honest, if I was a US citizen, I'd more than likely either be a member of the NRA or a similar organisation.

And anyone who says I don't give a fcuk about children can sod off. Just because someone owns and uses a gun and doesn't want to lose it, that doesn't mean they don't give a shyte about children. I'm fully vetted, law abiding and no danger to anybody so I don't see how me having my gun taken off me would make anybody safer.

Now, that said, I actually am in favour of gun control. But to me, gun control doesn't mean banning certain guns. It means putting in place measures that help prevent criminals/crazy/unstable people from getting their hands on guns. I'm fine with gun registrations, background checks, red flag laws etc. but I can fully understand why the NRA and certain politicians are against any of these sensible measures - because they fear the death by 1000 cuts.

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416394#Comment_120416394

I respect you as a responsible gun owner involved in sport.

BUT, if you decide on a whim to shoot up a school, you could do it tomorrow. I couldn’t decide on a whim, I wouldn’t even know where to start to acquire a gun.

Does that make sense? Does it factor into the argument for prohibition at all?

Cheers

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416189#Comment_120416189

That just nonsense , gun crimes can be very different & its worthless throwing them all in the same pot,

For instance in Ireland a gangland murder with a illegally imported weapon is different to a family dispute on land that ends with someone being shot with a farmer's legally purchased shot gun,

Both are gun crimes but very different issues have caused the crime to happen ,

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416436#Comment_120416436

In your above example, it's more likely a farmer will be responsible for a gun crime related to a land dispute.

Does that mean farmers are more responsible for gun crimes in the grand scheme of things in Ireland? Most definitely not.

What exactly is it you are trying to say?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416388#Comment_120416388

Hale wasn’t a child, they were 28, and they weren’t killed during the attack either. They were responsible for the attack on the school in the first place, which ended when Hale was shot dead by police.

She is technically her mothers child, as in how many children have you, 3, ages 21, 25, 27. Grown children would be more apt, I imagine in this instance RTE didn't want to use daughter or son because of the confusion.

She was very much killed during the attack as the Police were targets too.

Weird couple of things to get hung up on though.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416388#Comment_120416388

RTE isn't trying to "distract" the reader at all in that piece and their language is very clear.

They mention at the top of the article that Hale was 28. However, Hale IS the child of the parents who "believed" that she had "bought and sold a single gun".

Also, Hale was killed in the attack, as they were shot by the police.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416493#Comment_120416493

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416527#Comment_120416527

It’s because the language they use isn’t clear, is why I was making the point, in the same manner as @Faugheen uses terms like ‘domestic terrorism’ to describe this incident, where a non-male child was killed during an attack by the shooter.

Reminds me of the film ‘Predestination’, where ambiguity is central to the narrative -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_(film)

Sudden Valley

Rte definitely wasnt trying to distract the reader. Both sentences made perfect sense and were factual.

I think other western countries like finland and switzerland are compared to USA in terms of gun ownership but i believe that in the guns per capita stats the USA would outstrip even war zones. I think it would be good at least to try to limit how many guns one person can own, could limit the effectiveness of these spree killers like that older guy who shot at a concert in Las Vegas.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416571#Comment_120416571

Irrespective of a poster's use of "domestic terrorism" in this thread, the language used in the RTE article couldn't be clearer.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416676#Comment_120416676

Certainly one way to reduce these mass shootings to eliminate the possibility of a mentally ill person owning a firearm. If you are currently on, or have recently been on, medication for mental issues, you shouldn't be allowed near a gun.

For your own and everyone else's benefit.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416703#Comment_120416703

No, no it’s not irrespective of a posters use of domestic terrorism in this thread, because that’s exactly the context in which I used the RTE article as an example, and earlier the NY Post article which referred to Hale as a non-male, but then went on later in the article to acknowledge that Hale was a woman. That’s why I said they were taking the piss with the headline, and the RTE article was equally purposefully ambiguous as to be misleading, and @Faugheen using the term ‘domestic terrorism’ to refer to a single incident where Hale’s motivation for choosing to commit murder, is still unclear.

No @Boggles , the language used isn’t a weird thing to get hung up on either when both yourself and @Tony EH try to correct me on the idea that Hale wasn’t killed during the attack. She attacked the children and staff in the school. The police ended Hale’s attack when they killed her, as they have the authority to do in those circumstances.

Basic stuff lads, no need for any of yiz to be getting all tongue-tied, tripping over yourselves with ‘technically’ yada yada 😒

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416723#Comment_120416723

I thought that was in place already in some states. That the state can put a temporary hold on the person purchasing weapons or temporarily take away their guns. I recall a spree killer case a couple of months ago where the guy just waited out the temporary order, and then did the killings.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416758#Comment_120416758

Hey look, I'm not going to labour this. But if you're having trouble reading that RTE article, then I can't help you. There's no attempt to "distract" the reader going on in it and if you're seeing something like that within, that's entirely your own fault.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409511#Comment_120409511

RIP the victims

It's so common to hear of shootings, even school shootings in America, they will never have change

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416808#Comment_120416808

I think there possibly are. But the issue is that they aren't comprehensive enough, or in other States completely non-existent.

The salient point, whether one wants to view this as a gun issue or a mental issue, is that it is way, way, too easy for people who shouldn't have access to weaponry of a firearm nature to get hold of them legally and then subsequently carry out these types of attacks.

And that really needs some sort of in-depth review because, without stricter measures, these types of incidents will just keep happening. It comes down to whether those in authority are happy to keep seeing dead kids as a result of overly lenient guns laws or whether they want to do something to try and prevent that from occurring.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416813#Comment_120416813

Climb down out of yourself telling me you can’t help me if I’m having trouble reading the article and it’s entirely my own fault. I don’t want your help, I’m perfectly able to read an article on my own and form my own thoughts and opinions on it and what it is attempting to convey or accomplish, in the same manner as I have the capacity and ability to do so when @Faugheen or anyone else uses uses a term or language I’m not familiar with, like ‘domestic terrorism’, where it doesn’t apply, or it’s meaning is ambiguous.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416855#Comment_120416855

I don't give a damn about Faugheen's use of "domestic terrorism". That means nothing to me.

But there is ZERO correlation between that and the perfectly straightforward RTE article.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416875#Comment_120416875

I do though, because that’s the context in which I was making the point, in suggesting that what he was doing is similar to what the author of the RTE article was doing.

You don’t get to push your issues onto me as if I’m at fault when you clearly don’t care for the point I was making in the first place. I’m satisfied to leave it there as I’m in no doubt now you understood the point I was making in the first place.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416903#Comment_120416903

If you want to believe there's some sort of connection between Faugheen using "domestic terrorism" in a post on a Boards thread and a perfectly straightforward RTE article which you think is an attempt at "distracting the reader", then go ahead.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416676#Comment_120416676

Countries like Finland and Switzerland are nothing like the US though, that’s why while they can be compared in terms of firearms ownership, it’s pretty much pointless. Limitations like that wouldn’t do anything to limit spree killers. Surely it’s obvious by now that no matter what rules are in place, people who are of a mind to commit murder will find a way around those rules and regulations.

FWIW though -

Overall, the percentage of gun owners in the U.S. has been declining relative to the population growth and is at an almost 40-year low,reported the Washington Post. Across a number of national polls, gun ownership has fallen by 10 – 20 percent from the 1970s.

If you want to chew on the numbers further, 48 percent of white men in America currently have a gun. That’s compared to 24% of white women and 24% of nonwhite men, as well as 16 percent of nonwhite women. 

One other telling characteristic — the less education you have, the more likely you are a gun owner. About a third (31 percent) of the people who only have a high school diploma have a gun, 34 percent of those who some college education, but only a quarter of those with a bachelor’s degree report to be gun owners. Among whites only, the number of high school diploma owners with a gun jumps up to 40 percent, compared to 26 percent for college graduates.

Another factor that plays into this – the farther you live from a city, the more likely you are to own a gun, as 46 percent of Americans who live in rural areas are gun owners. This is in contrast to 28 percent of suburbanites or 19 percent of those who live in urban areas, who feel compelled to get a weapon. 

Combine this with the statistics that the number one reason (among 67 percent) for owning a gun is “protection,” while 89 percent of gun owners see having one as important to their overall identity and another 85 percent say guns are essential to their sense of freedom.

https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/a-minority-of-americans-owns-most-of-the-guns-and-drives-gun-agenda-studies-show/

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416758#Comment_120416758

Huh?

She was literally killed as she was still literally shooting out the windows and into the hallways.

Again it's not my opinion.

Utterly bizarre. 😕

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417026#Comment_120417026

Fierce funnywoman altogether Boggles, you too obviously understand point I was making, so I’ll leave it there.

Theboinkmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414966#Comment_120414966

Who cares ? She was a women with mental health issues. 6 people dead - 3 children….who cares about pronouns.

97% of people getting gender reassignment surgery in America had other severe mental health issues. Suicide rates amongst those people with gender issues are multiples of those who don’t. So having trans people be part of the mentally impaired school shooters is entirely expected.

OKDublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409853#Comment_120409853

From news I've read the title is incorrect. I understand they are transgender male. They were female at birth and then identified as male. They were using the name "Aiden" as well.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417767#Comment_120417767

Yes, I did subsequently post that same information when I found it.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120416676#Comment_120416676

Why would that work?

Despite the issue of different firearms for different purposes, I, for one, can only use one at a time and I think most people suffer the same limitations of only having two arms and one dominant eye.

Let's say I can carry 10kg worth of guns and ammo. I can carry a 3kg gun and 7kg of ammo, or two 6kg guns and 4kg of ammo. With which could more damage be caused? What good would limiting the number of owned firearms do?

When faced with this issue, the next logical proposal folks tend to make is "Well, then, let's limit the amount of ammunition you can have." Well, reloading is a thing, is the first problem (So are reliable 3D-printed firearms nowadays, incidentally. They've gotten much better the last couple of years). The second problem is coming out with a 'practical' limitation on how many rounds someone can have with them even if somehow they could effectively control reloading. "Nobody needs more than 200 rounds", or whatever. You will easily burn that much plinking in the back woods with your friends in an hour, let alone if you're seriously practicing for a competition. Of all the spree shooters, only Vegas fired more than that (for comparison, Pulse, 189, Sandy Hook 164).

McFly85

America is unique insofar as it’s the only country in the world that does nothing when a shooting like this occurs to prevent it happening again.

A shooting in a school in the UK, handguns are banned immediately.

A shooting in an Australian university, laws banning guns are brought in.

Some primary school kids are shot in the US, we’re told it’s because the shooter is trans and it’s just a shame there weren’t more guns available to stop it.

America has long since decided that children having their lives ended in violent circumstances in their place of learning is worth the price of their current gun laws. Every elected official and lawmaker who doesn’t at least attempt to prevent it happening in future is complicit in the next one. And it will happen again, and probably not too far in future.