Trans Woman School shooting TN

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434433#Comment_120434433

I don't think that "being trans" is anything to do with the shooting per se, but I think there's a valid avenue of investigation when it comes to whether and how much this mass murderer was embedded in victimhood-based activist groups online convincing the mass murderer that the mass murderer was a victim of "genocide" and "denial of existence" because for their trans identity, and other such hysterical and obviously fatuous claims that may nonetheless strongly impact a psyche predisposed to disturbance.

Similar conversations pop up when a shooter is discovered to have been involved in the "incel" community online, for example, and the media goes after that group plenty (which is not seen as a condemnation of people who are unhappily single as a whole).

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434566#Comment_120434566

Whats this non-sequitur mumbo jumbo got to do with me^

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434596#Comment_120434596

a very short summary that grievance based politics leads to viokence

https://twitter.com/FrankDeScushin/status/1640513413272027138

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434433#Comment_120434433

I think people are extremely tactical when it comes to assigning blame - or credit - to groups or individuals as and when its suits their purposes. If a trans person came up with the cure for cancer, people would talk about how this achievement demonstrated the wonderful contributions of the trans community. Whereas when a trans person shoots up a school (and this is not a unique case) then its purely an individual act, with no wider questions to ask or conclusions to be drawn. The same people would have completely the reverse views if a MAGA supporter carried out either act. Its purely friends = good, enemies = bad.

But for this case, on its own merits, I think its extremely telling that the shooter had a manifesto, and LGBT activist groups are campaigning for it not to be released to the public.

charlie_says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433258#Comment_120433258

"Only the people I want can have guns"

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434674#Comment_120434674

A lot of spree killers have manifestos, even lone wolf type attacks and the police never release them. It would be like a recruitment tool for the cause of the killer. I'm sure the authorities will study it to identify individuals that may have the same views.

Regarding your views on the media treatment of MAGA supporters I think that it is extremely off topic but perhaps speaks to the type of media you consume. I would just agree that any sort of community should not be judged by the worst actions of those within the community, like the Irish should not have been judged by the actions of the IRA, the Trans people should not be judged by the actions of this killer.

Perhaps the Biden administration has been hamfisted in their messaging but again the overall message I'm hearing from both sides is nothing can be done for a problem that no other country in the world appears to have. There seems to be no lessons learnt or plans of action outside of arm more people to reduce the deathcount to a presumed level that would already seem extreme in any other developed nation.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434610#Comment_120434610

Apologies if you believe I was getting after your post specifically, it was more the trend of taking an extreme example of the opposing view and amplifying that example as if it is entirely representative of that point of view as exemplified by the tweet you linked, and amplified through being re-posted elsewhere

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434828#Comment_120434828

I don't accept that manifestos being public has any measurable risk. If it was, we would expect the cops and FBI agents who are reading the manifesto to shortly start shooting up schools. They wont.

I think the real concern by LGBT activists is that the shooter's manifesto likely echo's a lot of mainstream LGBT ideology about trans people being under attack with real and imagined slights and grievances. Your concern for preventing a recruitment tool to the cause of the killer wont extend to restricting - or even challenging - the public spread of those ideas which this mass shooter consumed.

The "off-topic" tangent about red-heads was introduced by another poster. I just addressed it. Whatever your personal views, groups are either raised up or demonised in the media based on the behaviour of individual members of those groups when its tactically useful to the views and beliefs of the media. That is just how the world works.

There isn't anything hamfisted about the Biden administrations handling of this. It is entirely deliberate and in line with their views. They wont face any consequence for it.

MilkyToast

I'm in two minds about the release of manifestos. On the one hand, these people and their twisted ideas deserve complete eradication and erasure after these horrific incidents. On the other, there are probably lessons to be learned from seeing the nature of the deluded descent that got them to the point where shooting random people dead seemed like an effective final act. The most obvious answer seems to be that they should be kept for security/justice instruments only - but that requires that the public believe the security/justice instruments of their society are trustworthy and politically neutral, and it seems that many Americans (on both extreme ends of the political spectrum there) don't feel that way.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434481#Comment_120434481

Women and their experiences aren’t being globally erased Jesus **** Christ 🤣

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435177#Comment_120435177

Women and girls around the world are sold onto marriage, locked in huts during their periods, shunned from the community due to their injuries from giving birth, denied an education, raped, and forced to give birth. This is solely because of their biological sex and nothing to do with their gender identity. To say that sex is irrelevant or not a thing is erasing these experiences.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435281#Comment_120435281

No it literally doesn’t. This is laughable and nonsensical.

Just as surely as you were able to call up those lives experiences in your post, they still exist in spite of the existence of trans people.

Jesus **** Christ.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435144#Comment_120435144

I don't accept that manifestos being public has any measurable risk. If it was, we would expect the cops and FBI agents who are reading the manifesto to shortly start shooting up schools.

Huh?

So you have decided there is no risk because an FBI agent hasn't immediately drove to a school and executed children after reading a "manifesto"?

How scientific. 😕

Overheal

FBI agents are in a word professionals, critical thinkers viewing things in a sterile manner. Not a clutch of yahoos stringing thumbtacks and yarn and newspaper clippings around Langley to uncover what “the deep state” (themselves) really does that “they” (themselves) don’t want you (themselves) to know about etc. as told by a mentally ill person as a justification for shooting up their old school.

But the average Tucker Carlson viewer… they do not need this material. Neither does Tucker Carlson. Dare say Tucker would pick up a GRT manifesto and say “wow how dare the cops kill this genius” etc.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435144#Comment_120435144

The prevailing wisdom after the columbine shooting and aftermath is that the media should not give the killers want they want, notoriety, in order to prevent copycats. Copycat killings by other people that have faced similar situations rather than cops or FBI agents if that is not clear.

I think the manifestos should be read and studied by professionals but to the general public it would add no value. I remember reading the Unabomber manifesto that was only released by the cops to the public to assist in identifying him. It just proved he was madder than march hare.

I dont think any sides of the argument about gun control are coming out clean in the argument but am annoyed that the emphasis seems to be on Trans issues rather than another school shooting.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435546#Comment_120435546

Because we already decided nationally that kids being shot is worth our 2nd amendment rights. We decided it at Columbine at Newtown hell we even decided it at Uvalde - there is zero (0) movement in Congress to get a bill done of any variety realistically, in spite of polls showing overwhelming cries from the public to do so.

We would have just been talking about this case as “another one” and we’ve already done that and been there and emphasized everything Ad infinitum. It’s far rarer to find these shootings carried out by a female or a trans person.

Boggles

They could publish their "manifesto" a year in advance and it wouldn't be enough to get their weapons taken off them.

Hateful gibberish ranting and raving usually copied off the likes of 4chan or 8chan.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435448#Comment_120435448

Is your concern that if you read the manifesto that you will find it convincing and shoot up a school yourself?

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435546#Comment_120435546

Not exactly. There was concern about how 24/7 news cycles reported mass shootings in a sensationalist style. Not that the public be given the full facts about the crime in a more dispassionate way.

There is no public safety reason to object to the release of the manifesto. There is certainly no trust of "the professionals" that would allow them to keep it secret and everyone think "Oh, I'm sure its for the best". There has already been rumours about what was contained in the manifesto. Keeping it secret will just offer space for people to fill in the blanks. The only way to prevent more rumours is to just release it.

But LGBT activists don't want it released.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435775#Comment_120435775

We're talking about the Public here, all 100.000000% of them.

Are the population all mentally sound and critically thinking?

We have had decades of reporting about this kind of thing don't you know, and we know that manifestos used to be made public more regularly, and we know there are copycats and we know it happens less often. I'm sure you can appreciate why, despite your burning curiosity to read it.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435809#Comment_120435809

Oh for **** sake. Taking swipes at the LGBT community?

Why not take swipes at the black community for not releasing GRT manifestos?

Or swipes at christians for not releasing radical islamic terror manifestos?

All of those groups I mentioned all the victims of some act of extremist violence fueled by manifestos we've never seen. And we had not shared them knowing there's a litany of public safety reasons to object to the release of the manifestos.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435816#Comment_120435816

Oh, that "If it saves just one life..." argument. So would you agree that demonization of JK Rowling by LGBT activists must stop - in case a person who isn't mentally sound acts upon it?

No - that's a risk you're willing to take, right?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435846#Comment_120435846

🤣

I haven't seen any demonization, nor have I seen more aptly any cries of stochastic terrorism aimed at JKR. Nor, amusingly, have I seen anyone desire publication of manifestos of any sort calling for violence against JKR.

Try and play the ball, Sand, not the man.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434352#Comment_120434352

Look, to be clear there is no excuse you can offer where any sensible person will think it's okay for a trans shooter to murder three nine years olds and the White House to say how their hearts are with the trans community at this time when they are under attack. There is no excuse for it.

Hold my beer

The United States was attacked by radical islamic terrorism.

Over 3,000 americans and probably by now, specified numbers of multinationals, were killed. Billions of dollars in damages ensued.

And the President of the United States made it clear that the administration's thoughts were with the Muslim community which had since been the target of rampant and extreme hate and violence and even murders in the wake of it. So Bush got on the podium and said Islam is a Religion of Peace. Now, it took him the better part of a year, but nonetheless the administration came to its senses that its words and its actions were having a stark and measurable effect on innocent peoples lives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rkmIAnfDVY

Stuff your clap about the trans community please and thanks.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435842#Comment_120435842

You've a whole other thread on here discussing another shooters manifesto though? Did you object to that one being released?

To add, I don't think manifestos like this should be released. Maybe the general motives should but not the entire thing.

PaoloGotti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435177#Comment_120435177

I said she didn’t say anything hateful. Oh I see - you disagree with her therefore it’s hate speech. Usual.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435775#Comment_120435775

A manifesto such as this could easily say the equivalent of "1. the sky is blue, 2.the grass is green, 3.the sun is black, therefore everyone must die". Those wont to do so would then feel justified in declaring every one who believes 1 and 2, also believe 3, so the are the same as the lunatic killer. Which is no doubt what will happen.

Still doesn't mean it shouldn't be released.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435953#Comment_120435953

You've a whole other thread on here discussing another shooters manifesto though? Did you object to that one being released?

Are you confused in thinking that the decision to release that manifesto was one done by officials?

Are you forgetting the entire nature of that attack? The weapon?

It's quite apt and categorical to say the Buffalo shooting was indeed the result of access and circulation to prior manifestos.

Sand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120435866#Comment_120435866

Well of course you haven't seen any demonization.

Meanwhile, the Guardian ran a piece on how she was being demonised, facing "a storm of hatred and abuse".

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/20/making-a-demon-of-jk-rowling-is-a-wretched-sport-born-of-misogyny-and-resentment

And she has revealed how she received "so many" death threats, with LGBT activists posting her home address publicly

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211122-j-k-rowling-reveals-death-threats-over-transgender-row

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120436008#Comment_120436008

The Trans community also receives death threats yet you find those to be an eyeroll? You found it wholly offensive that the White House would dare to speak out against death threats etc.

I don't see how I did anything to demonize JKR and I remain unclear why you were taking the angle that I was.