Universal Free School meals

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122091090#Comment_122091090

thats all extra steps and faffing around with vouchers etc.

just make the program universal and take it back at tax time. simple

i dont get how anyone can be against school meals for kids tbh.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122091117#Comment_122091117

Remove the cost from children’s benefit. No faffing about and everyone knows the child is benefiting

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088918#Comment_122088918

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088941#Comment_122088941

Children of primary school age aren't expected to observe a strick Ramadan fast; some of them will keep a half-day fast, but this doesn't exclude eating lunch.

Either way, there's no requirement for any special Ramadan meal; anyone strictly observing Ramadan won't eat lunch, so it doesn't matter to them what meal is served.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088875#Comment_122088875

No, they're not. But that's not what we're discussing; we're discussing children who are hungry because they are not being fed properly. They are being neglected.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092193#Comment_122092193

Fed properly is subjective that's the whole point it's nit black and white.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092366#Comment_122092366

No, I'm afraid "fed properly" is not subjective.

mariaalice

O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122092473#Comment_122092473

Don't unsuly get in to this but to some unless a child is fed nutritionaly correct organic food they are not being fed correctly, to others highley processed breakfast cereals and processes ham sandwiches on white bread is feeding a child correctly.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088972#Comment_122088972

I think youll find the idea could be debated many places outside of boards too

Its people that just want to say an idea is 100% correct and not entertain any debate that Id worry about...

amacca

I dont oppose it I just think its a sad indictment of where we are at that its a necessity or reality etc

Maybe I'm naeive or backward but I just think parents at a minimum should be able to clothe/feed etc their children ....if they have enough income/welfare to do so then why arent they? If they dont live up to these basic requirements is a free hot meal (of probably declining quality as it becomes more widespread) going to solve any of the real problems for these kids longterm or is it just going to be another policy achievement/press release for dep/minister and a boon for pearl clutchers that think "everything is awesome" and cant see implications beyond the immediate effects) while they do sfa of any real substance to improve the situation longterm....and sure why would the former...thats nots what is rewarded its all short term wins incentivised while longterm things get worse..

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094656#Comment_122094656

I cook at least twice a day at home, as I do not believe that sandwiches are proper food. Can I bring my kids hot lunches to school? You know I cannot, for a lot of reasons. So the next best thing is the school providing hot food for lunch.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094674#Comment_122094674

On top of that, the thing a lot of people on this thread are ignoring is that the stay-at-home mum is for most couples a thing of the past. For a lot of people, kids are not going to school without a proper lunch because they're parents are spending the child benefit on booze and fags, its because both parents are working fulltime. I know more than one set of couples who have to be on the M50 by 7am at the latest.

It's a sad indictment of modern society but it is a fact for many families.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094656#Comment_122094656

…we dont live in a perfect world, many households simply cannot afford to feed all occupants appropriately all the time, this occurs due to all sorts of reasons, but some of the most common would be long term unemployment, long term mental health issues and other health issues including physical health issues, long term addiction problems, relationship breakdown, which of course can lead to some of the previous reasons, etc etc

its very important we as a society dont go on the internets and simply 'judge' those that find themselves in such situations, and praise collective actions, such as this one, we would call this having empathy and compassion for those that require such services…..

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094656#Comment_122094656

If they dont live up to these basic requirements is a free hot meal (of probably declining quality as it becomes more widespread) going to solve any of the real problems for these kids longterm or is it just going to be another policy achievement/press release for dep/minister and a boon for pearl clutchers that think "everything is awesome" and cant see implications beyond the immediate effects) while they do sfa of any real substance to improve the situation longterm.

It'll get hungry kids some food. That is better than them not getting it.

It goes far beyond just the food of course. They're going to be far better set up to actually get an education if they aren't distracted by hunger all day. And as pointed out, frankly a got meal seems a lot better than a sandwich anyway.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094674#Comment_122094674

I have a feeling a well put together/nutritionally balanced packed lunch (if the kid would eat eat it🙂) might well be far in advance of whats likely to be served up as a hot lunch in a lot of school canteens to probably 100s of kids.....nutrition is definitely an area we can do better on as individuals than relying on most catering.... imo

amacca

Quote didnt work.ignore

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094725#Comment_122094725

Fair enough..perhaps you are right

I cant help feeling praising something unconditionally ..that doesnt have an element of addressing the root cause or an additional commitment to address some of these issues (even incrementally over a long time period).....isnt necessarily the correct thing to do

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082752#Comment_122082752

And if intensive support shames the parents-tough. It's the kids I'm concerned about,not the parents egos.

Ah ok, we have to resort to shaming parents.
When was the last time we tried to shame people into altering their behaviour? We did it with women for decades.

Ill repeat, you would have loved the nuns and priests running the place.

Providing a hot meal to a child if the parents cannot give one is a good idea. There is a mountain of evidence to support this.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082560#Comment_122082560

We tried that before, we sent tonnes of kids to industrial schools.

How did that work out?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082884#Comment_122082884

Ate you satisfied that parents are sending their children to school hungry? 16% , that is outrageous. That sounds like a huge volume of people who can't be trusted to be parents.

Trusted?

Unless you want to go down the road of sterilising a big proportion of the population, what can you do about it?

If 16% of children are going to school hungry id support a scheme where they are fed. We dont live in Nazi Germany, thankfully.

You're ignoring a huge problem, because you don't like an extreme solution that posted has suggested. That shouldn't cover up the fact that there are parents sending their kids to school hungry, what kind of parent does that?

Again, what can we do it fix it.

The simplest one is to provide a hot meal to them.

Some people are suggesting an utterly authoritarian approach.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129056#Comment_122129056

Get Tusla to do their job.

Educate people on how to feed their kids.

Put the children into foster care if necessary.

A parent who sends their child to school hungry is not fit to be a parent.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129044#Comment_122129044

The Irish state took a model that the British were phasing out cos they knew it didn't work, and enthusiastically implemented it.

No surprise that it didn't work.

State models that remove the focus from individual families rarely do. That includes factory-style feeding programs.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129148#Comment_122129148

What is flca? I take the pragmatic view, who will make parents feed their children correctly another layer of social workers and family support workers it would cost a fortune.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130371#Comment_122130371

Typo, should have read focus.

And yes, family support workers. Because school meals for everyone is going to cost a fortune anyway.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088021#Comment_122088021

To me its a symptom of a dysfunctional society if schools are providing free meals etc

Eh?

Many advanced Western Democracies provide school meals to children.

Canada, USA, UK, Germany, Norway, Japan, France, Italy, Finland, Sweden…

Are societies in these countries all dysfunctional?

Seems to me the more advanced countries do this, so we are catching up.

As to your point what is the problem and what is a realistic solution to it?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088074#Comment_122088074

TUSLA should then investigate to see if the child is being neglected. They do this by meeting with the child and its parent/s. If there are more signs of neglect, they may be forced to take action. That is up to them.

So you want TUSLA to investigate approximately 1 in 8 families/couples/parents in the country?

Have you ever had experience with TUSLA? They are notoriously bad at their job. Also to do the above would require hiring thousands more people, which would cost much more than some free school meals.

Say Tusla find out half of these parents are just 'bad' parents… then what? Take the kids off them I am guessing ala Mother and Baby homes?

It seems to me people want to go back to the 1950's with their puritan conservative views on how families and people run their lives.

Babies and Children were taken off parents under to guidance of child poverty and neglect as well, that was the reason we locked up so many people. How did that work out in the end?

Also, you are wrong about the interpretation of reporting a child who is hungry to Tusla.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129075#Comment_122129075

A parent who sends their child to school hungry is not fit to be a parent.

So you do agree with the concept of taking approx 16% of kids away from their parents…

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129148#Comment_122129148

State models that remove the focus from individual families rarely do. That includes factory-style feeding programs.

You are all over the shop.

What 'model' do your propose instead?

You do realise Tusla is a state organisation? They are not fit for purpose, yet some propose to give it more to do and more powers?

Your last bit is also wrong. There is a mountain of evidence to support that school meals work. The links have been posted, but ignored. You are entitled to your puritan opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130607#Comment_122130607

And yes, family support workers. Because school meals for everyone is going to cost a fortune anyway.

School meals is a drop in the ocean if you are proposing to hire an army of social worker to observe and oversea all parents in the state and determine if they are parenting the 'correct' way according to you.

And in the last post you give out about State apparatus but in the same vein you support more costly state intervention ala Orewells 1984.

Make up your mind.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094674#Comment_122094674

I dont know why you believe a sandwich for lunch isnt proper food. Do you think for example a basic chicken curry with no veg and a few random pieces of chicken or some other low quality school lunch is superior to a chicken sandwich on brown bread, salad, cheese and some fruit packed in a lunch box. - thats crazy.

A high proportion of the Irish population will have a healthy sandwich for lunch today ( including myself) - nothing wrong with it at all.

School lunchs are a great idea in deprived areas but there is no need whatsoever for every primary school to have the same. In my own childrens school I dont think it is necessary as there are no families that are in poverty - no child turns up to school having no breakfast or no lunch in their bag. Im not even sure whether my kids would even like the meals provided even if it was introduced. I would rather see the money spent elsewhere in education. My friend teaches in a school where it has been introduced and she said there is huge waste - alot of kids are not eating the meals.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131821#Comment_122131821

You're content that those children should be left with parents who are incapable of feeding them?