Match thread Mexicans v Wildlings (Leinster v Ulster) Kick off 5.30pm 1/4/23

Former Former Former

Horrendous conditions for a game.

Conan was immense, Ryan and Porter not far behind.

Great to see Stockdale looking closer to his 2018 self but it wasn't a game for wingers.

Ultimately Ulster had a game plan to get in Leinster faces and disrupt us from playing. It worked to a point but unfortunately that requires a huge amount of discipline which they didn't have.

Ulster simply didn't have the nous or leadership to turn things around when Leinster started to pull away. There was a moment on 70 minutes when Ulster won a free kick from a scrum in their own 22. Cooney stood there looking around for a bit and eventually kicked for touch. You're 15 points down and you... give possession back to the other team? They'd given up.

Bobb Sapp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429131#Comment_120429131

Well why don’t you scratch your belly while you’re naval gazing at the incredible forward play we have. I’ve seen Italian soccer teams play more exciting football than the rugby Leinster have played. It’s the equivalent of park the bus football. Wait for mistakes and pounce on them rather than going out and creating scores.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429155#Comment_120429155

You’re free to your opinion but it doesn’t make it correct, well informed or relevant to any Leinster fans here this evening.

Good evening to you.

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429101#Comment_120429101

Have to agree. He's really pulled his socks up. I like the look of Coombes and thought he could have had a run in the 6n but not so sure about that now. Conan was everywhere today.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429000#Comment_120429000

I rarely if ever have seen long range tries of set pieces or phase play from Leinster this season.

well all thats say is you havent seen much of leinster at all this season then.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429152#Comment_120429152

Yeah, I was disappointed with that aspect of Ulster's performance today. If ever there was a match to get in Leinster's face and force errors out of them it was today. Other than Keenan's knock on it just never happened. I really expected Ulster to make more of their size in the breakdown area but I'm not sure they had any breakdown turnovers (other than Hume's for which he got an undeserved yellow). And by the time the last quarter came along they'd given up. Cooney brought not much when he came on, although in fairness to Leinster, they had Ulster's number from the off and got their tactics spot on.

Clegg

I'm delighted with the win. I'll need to rewatch the game, bit from initial view I think Leinster dominated proceedings. Ulster only sporadically got the chance to use their rolling maul.bwcausw their opponents has the better of possession and territory.

If anything, Leinster had the superior lineout and maul.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428747#Comment_120428747

5 penalties in 3 phases of play in the 22 with no Card. Anyone thinking Pearce rode Ulster, is utterly delusional. Hume paid the price for O’Tooles total lack of discipline before being replaced. Instead of being carded like he should have been.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429123#Comment_120429123

I know you probably know you’re talking out of your posterior but just in case you don’t.

highlights leinster v gloucester

https://youtu.be/LKcofP_YvUs

Clegg

Delighted James Hume was again on the losing side.

He gives the big one too often despite playing poorly.

Former Former Former

According to EPCR, Leinster missed one tackle in the entire game.

awec

Ulster barely fired a shot, looked like a team that turned up just expecting to be beaten.

I think that’s the end of the road for McFarland. We are going nowhere.

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430034#Comment_120430034

The only positive probably from an Ulster perspective is that Stockdale is getting his form and confidence back.

Not sure what happened O'Toole, was very good for Ireland in his cameos and I was looking forward to seeing him, but he was dreadful yesterday.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428867#Comment_120428867

This is a completely incoherent, self-contradictory post.

In what world is practising passing and excelling at the basics of rugby a negative thing. How can a team that doesn't go out to win be unbeaten into April? 109 tries without creating anything?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430228#Comment_120430228

Yeah it's off the wall stuff. Completely non sensical.

Of all teams in the whole world of rugby to claim play "negative" rugby, Leinster is literally the last team you'd pick.

pickarooney

I just noticed some loony bin reference to POM having a teacher from Leinster and this meaning everyone from Leinster hated him in another post. I think this account can go in that same bin as every other re-reg.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430278#Comment_120430278

Private school transitive properties?

What I really want to know is how Leinster managed to simultaneously have 62% possession and 74% territory while standing off and waiting for mistakes. Seems quite the trick.

stephen_n

Face facts, the only thing boring about Leinster is that they keep winning.

roverjoyce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430707#Comment_120430707

It's a form of sports washing, 4 teams from 1 country

Only one with team with an unlimited budget, gets half their team paid for by central contracts, Has the pick of every young player to sign to a contract

There has to be salary caps brought into provinces otherwise nobody will care or watch

salmocab

I don’t know it seems to me someone is pretty bitter over something

Clegg

We've seen backs as the jumper at the lineout before. But I'm not sure I've ever seen one be the lifter.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1642430099013132289?t=pQnMZFQ9-11G9cJyMAH7cQ&s=09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430989#Comment_120430989

How many pro clubs would you expect Ireland to have?

France - population 67.5m and 347k adult male rugby players have 30 professional clubs.

England - population 55.9m and 138k adult male players have 23 professional clubs.

Your argument would have some modicum of sense to it if it were the case that Leinster just bought in their success with a team full of expensive international mercenaries like Toulon (or to a lesser extent Saracens), but it couldn’t be further from the case with Leinster.

There is scarcely a team in European rugby that produces so much of its own first team squad I’d wager.

Lot of ridiculous whining posts having shots at Leinster today - you love to see it.

Dubinusa

Why would anyone think that a salary cap would work? How many lads from Leinster would be keen to play at another province? So, to make the other provinces good, Leinster get hosed?

How many players would stay? Why would VDF play for a province he has no connection to. Why would he not look for more money... in France. Seriously, it's drivel. The let's give x the first picks of the best young players from Leinster, to make the other provinces better.

The calls for provincial players to play for Ireland one minute and the next, give us your best young players.

It's a lot more than the players for Leinster, imo. It's the coaching, too. Prior to Lancaster arriving, where were the calls for salary caps and Leinster's first borns? Look at Connacht! That defense couldn't stop a bus! That's Leinster's fault! Munster hired a buffoon and then tried to keep him! They kept Archer and let Ryan walk. They let Cronin walk too. Supporters saying" Kleyn must be selected for Ireland" and then he's shown up yesterday. The calls for Coombes and then he's fairly anonymous yesterday. Really!

Stu leaves after this season! Sexton too! The calls for salary caps etc will disappear. Without Lancaster, Leinster will not be as good, imo. Hand wringing about Leinster one minute and banging on about your own players for the national team the next.

Bobb Sapp

Not bitter at all, just highlighting a breakdown of the type of tries Leinster score. I went through the highlights of both Racing, both Gloucester and the Sharks game and there is only one long range setpiece strike play from far out.

There was only one try (maybe two) I could idenitify as that type of score. And that was from 37 tries. The vast, and I say this solemnly, vast majority are scored from close in like 5M or within the 22. It’s not attractive rugby.

Granted there is a lot that goes on in the middle of the game outside of tries being scored but the type of try we score the majority of the time from that sample of games is 5M pick and go, tap penalty 5M out, pass off 5M ruck to winger/back, break inside the 22 or lineout maul. I’d say 75% is that type of try.

The rest are on the break or turnover ball. Rarely if ever is there set moves with strike plays and it’s not attractive rugby.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431133#Comment_120431133

There is few things more ironic than a South African accusing any other team of playing unattractive rugby.

Bobb Sapp

Who said I was South African. I taught in South Africa fyi. Big difference.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430989#Comment_120430989

Except none of that is actually true. In fact most of it is bordering on conspiracy theory nonsense.

Bobb Sapp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431207#Comment_120431207

How so? Most American leagues have one and they are the standard bearer for professional sports. When it is clear there is an institutionalised competitive advantage most sophisticated sports take action to level the playing field. Leinster’s wage bill is much more than the other provinces, can you explain how that prevents a one sided league? It ensures prolonged success due to financial dominance.

pickarooney

How do you know what Leinster's wage bill is?

How are teams going to afford the likes of Snyman, Fekitoa, Kitshoff, Vermeulen etc. with a salary cap?

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431267#Comment_120431267

How do you know what Leinsters wages bill is? How do you know it’s more than the other provinces? Do you want to share the figures?

Who’s on more money, Billy Burns or Ross Byrne. Doris or Vermeulen. Snyman or Ryan?

Leinster have about half of the central contracts, yet supply two thirds of the national team. Leinster produce more players than the rest of the provinces combined. They also produce plenty of players the other provinces benefit from. Since every other province has Leinster players in their starting team.

Introducing a draft system for one country in a league containing 5 countries. Would be the definition of stupidity. It would also inhibit other provinces duty to produce talent and ultimately dilute each provinces sense of identity. Eventually ending up as Leinster A, B, C & D.

salmocab

American sports are not the standard bearer for sports. They do some things well but that’s it. They also have fairly captive sports with theirs being the only top level option for the top players. They can’t go abroad and play their chosen sport at the top level, unlike in rugby or soccer

Bobb Sapp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431416#Comment_120431416

We don’t know what Leinster or the other provinces (bar Ulster) pay their players because they don’t publish their accounts. So it’s all guesswork but if we were to pay the market rates for each provinces players you could assume Leinster’s wage bill is much higher. Add to that the central contracts are paid for and e.g. Connacht and Ulster (bar Stockdale) have none, you have a gulf in fairness.

You say it would be stupidity to level the playing field because it would “inhibit the other provinces duty to produce talent”? Explain that please. If you want to be competitive and don’t have the structures other provinces/teams have there is a need to recruit outwards. Until the structures get put in place.

As for dilution of identity, I’ll leave that one with you but in the modern world closed shops and expanding outwards using internal talent is primitive. You open up and create an organisation not based on local talent like all the U.S. organisations do. It’s primitive to be closed down to outside contributions/talent.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430989#Comment_120430989

I don't think you know what sports washing is

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431527#Comment_120431527

Leinster currently have 6 of the 13 central contracts. Just under half. Munster have 4, Ulster have 2 and Connacht have 1. On top of the central contracts Munster also have Snyman who is paid for by an outside interest. As far as I am aware, Leinster, Ulster and Munster all get the same funding from the IRFU.

If Leinster players are being redistributed by some draft system. Then there is no imperative for other provinces to bother producing their own talent. Or it would certainly reduce the necessity to do so.

Do you really think people in Cork or Limerick would want to turn out to support a team with 8-10 Leinster players starting in it? The whole reason the provinces have worked so well for the IRFU is the local identity. It’s very important to note how well it has worked too. Compare it to Wales, Scotland or even England. Irish rugby has thrived because the provinces have thrived. It’s the foundation for all the success of the Irish team, since professionalism.

Bobb Sapp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431610#Comment_120431610

I notice you haven’t addressed my points just reiterated your own points. There is a disparity and “as far as you know” you know nothing. If market rates are applied the Leinster wage bill is far higher. That needs to change.

Local sportsmen will exist in Connacht Ulster and Munster even if there is a redistribution of talent and they already do, despite the many Leinster imports each province has. A draft system isn’t what I’m suggesting, just a fair distribution of income. And thereby a levelling of the playing field.

Your talk about identity and duty to produce talent are primitive and outdated concepts and in many cases already don’t apply to the provinces. There is many Leinster players in each province and it hasn’t diluted identity or reduced their willingness to produce locally. There is a gulf in the money given to Leinster as opposed the other provinces and stadium redevelopments aside, it interferes with free and fair competition.

letsbefair

Sour grapes, it’s a bit like in the GAA when they wanted to split Dublin in 2. The other provinces need to up their game like Kerry did.

Bobb Sapp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431808#Comment_120431808

It’s not sour grapes to insist monopolies don’t form in sport. There are laws against it in business there should also in sport. Central contracts being a prime example.

sydthebeat

Salary caps and one owner of four clubs just doesn't work, so conversations around that is a waste of time.

There could be some very severe unforseen consequences for the other three provinces if something like that was to happen

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431808#Comment_120431808

haven't heard that mentioned in a while oddly. It’s almost like it was just sour grapes and when they were no longer winning everything it was no longer peoples big thing with regards fairness. Odd that.

Bobb Sapp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431858#Comment_120431858

Fear mongering. Sounds like a threat. I’m in charge of the finances we wouldn’t want Connacht going bust type of thing? Shallow and low life sort of thing to suggest. There is a disparity, it should be addressed. And as for conversations around it being a waste of time because there is one owner, they can and do sound like “it’s my ball you’re not playing if I don’t want you to” type of arguments. Fortunately, there is laws against this sort of defensive mindset.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431702#Comment_120431702

You haven’t made any points. You made a claim based on absolutely no information at all. Just your clearly biased assumption. You don’t know what the market rates are. You don’t know who is being paid what. You assume there isn’t a fair distribution of income. So far you haven’t made an argument at all. You have just made statements and added a confirmation bias to them.

Every poster is of course free to discuss whatever they like, but can I humbly suggest people don't waste their time and don't clog up the thread with this nonsense?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431858#Comment_120431858

"Salary caps and one owner of four clubs just doesn't work, so conversations around that is a waste of time."

I'll repeat that for those who are slow on the uptake.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431947#Comment_120431947

Shallow and low life sort of thing to suggest.

Mod: Abusing posters in this fashion is against the charter.

Threadbanned for 2 weeks.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432195#Comment_120432195

Bout time

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120432818#Comment_120432818

Mod: If you have an issue with a post report it. You’ll note you didn’t report any posts today so are in no position to criticise moderation on here.

And if you have an issue with moderation, take it to PM.

Any more criticism of moderation on thread will receive an infraction. You’re around here long enough to know better.

roverjoyce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120431441#Comment_120431441

You can't play abroad if your Irish though is the problem

US sports are the fairest sports in the world

Their distribution of talent to weaker teams by drafts and ability to even teams by salary cap and free agency is the best in the world

Look at Cincinnati, they finished bottom 1 year and got the best QB in the draft and within 2 years where in the final 4

What if Harry Byrne had gone to Ulster, could he have 30 URC games played (injuries permitting) not sitting on the bench

Look at Dan Sheehan & Ronan Kelleher for an example

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433018#Comment_120433018

Of course you can. Lots of Irish players play abroad. That American system works because the sports themselves are pretty insular, they are played really only at the top level in one place.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120433018#Comment_120433018

Harry Byrne has played 42 times for Leinster - which is 12’ games more than Jack Crowley (7 months younger than him) has played for Munster.

I don’t know what your point is with Sheehan and Kelleher either. Both get plenty of game time, Sheehan arguably too much. It’s a squad game nowadays and all evidence would suggest right now that these players are best served remaining at Leinster