There's a reason why this generation is "worse off" than their parents

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430319#Comment_120430319

Have you considered any other data rather than just looking at house prices?

Hint: Population, employment rate, number of high paying jobs, availability of properties etc etc.

Andrewf20

Has anyone mentioned women in the professional workplace? I suspect house prices are largely down to the fact that alot more women are working professional jobs now vs the 1980s/90s as the irish economy started to take off. Its great for women's opportunity but it has led to an acceleration in house prices.

Between 1995 and 2002, women in the workforce jumped from 500K to 678K which was biggest jump ever seen between census's in the history of the state.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430328#Comment_120430328

???

That's exactly the point!!!????

Government policy has completely failed to allow for these factors.

You can still blame the doctor for not curing the illness that cause the symptoms. You don't just throw your hands to heaven and say, oh no I'm sick I just have to deal with it.

Development policy, lack of investment in housing schemes, tax choices, regulatory rigidness, defunding of local authorities, planning bureaucracy, purchasing options etc are all within the gift of government to augment as the see fit. Unless they are denying there a problem, they have to accept that for decades now they have failed to address the factors you have referred to above

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430328#Comment_120430328

If you take housing out of the equation you would be hard pressed to find many other negatives for younger generations in comparison to decades ago.

Every generation has its issues and I’d imagine everybody feels that their own struggles are far worse then everybody else’s.

Just listening to my mother in law tell me about living in a one bed 2nd floor studio room with three kids and having to go up stairs dragging a pram is enough to have me feeling like I didn’t have it so bad. She wasn’t complaining either, they eventually moved to a 3 bed semi in a nice part of Dublin.

Looking at it from my children’s point of view, they have far better education system, a much more empathetic and mental health approach to struggles. Far less tolerance of violence and bullying. The church has no hold over them so less opportunities for peadophiles in that and in sport (who have vetting systems). Even during covid I was well prepared for that and it was actually an ok experience for my kids.

I was adopted so started my life in some nuns orphanage, I think it was st pats where I believe some dodgy stuff went on but like I said we all have our struggles.

I think social media and the in your face wall to wall media coverage has them drained with negative stuff that gives the feeling of “it’s worse than it ever was”. I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that this mental health epidemic just seems to get worse and worse as our over use of digital devices and instant news increases.

I couldn’t afford to live in Dublin in the 00s when I finished college so live in a commuter belt town that most couples could afford. Back then there was a 10% difference between what I paid and a neighbour paid for a house being built beside each other, it was unreal trying to get a house!

When I bought my house it was right at the peak of 2006. My salary with my wife was circa 1-6th of the mortgage we got , so people need to stop going on like the mortgage to house prices has all of a sudden spiked. My house is only now getting back to the value I bought it for and I hear people whinging about house prices as if they are the first generation to be hampered by price. I’d be far better off now then I was in 2006 if I was buying today.

I know somebody looking for a house for years and they refuse to lower their prices expectations (I have to live in this area) and go on like the “can’t afford a house” which isn’t the case. Then they go spending money on holidays and clothes they don’t need while saving more of a deposit! You have to sacrifice some luxuries.

Do I worry for my children? No, I don’t, they can stay with me for as long as they need to. I am going to encourage them to save and spend prudently, a lesson I didn’t get in the “here’s a credit card with thousands limit as you go into college” years. They will inherit my house so will always have some sort of deposit to look forward to and if needs be I will leave a will where not one of my children can be homeless after I die (so House cant be sold).

Is it ideal? No , it’s not, but I won’t let my children act like victims in an ireland that has far more advantages than disadvantages over most other generations. I think people can allow this to consume them whereby it’s the only think that matters to the detriment of everything else.

In saying that, I do think everybody should have access to accommodation, medical assistance, education and food as a basic right in ireland. I just don’t believe this generation has it as hard as they think is all I am saying.

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429760#Comment_120429760

They are buying houses like mad.

Banking & Payments Federation Ireland figures show that between January and September, FTBs borrowed €4,656 million for the purchase of 17,761 properties. Some 12,104 of these were second hand while 5,657 of them were new, which is 1,171 more second-hand units and 929 more new homes than in the same period last year.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430328#Comment_120430328

Also availability of mortgages. Back in the 70s they were much harder to get. This lead to rise of the building societies.

My parents house was 10k in 1972, a neighbors house was 12k in 1971. A drop of 2k in a year for the same 1920s house. My fathers salary was 3k at the time, 10% deposit and a mortgage of 3 years salary. These houses now go for 1.6-1.8m, and the buyers thrown more money at them to bring up to modern standards.

dontmindme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430049#Comment_120430049

 Probably about 40% or more should not own a house, but there is going to have to be an awful lot more pain before people are willing to look at housing solutions that don’t involve them getting to own a property.

Abandon the dream of house ownership

Let me guess...you own a property.

Cody montana

Like a Facebook rant from a disgruntled relative that hates everyone and everything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430472#Comment_120430472

And ignoring the obvious difference that we're sitting on a retirement time bomb, for renters.

We have zero options for retirees and security of tenure

HerrKuehn

I think a lot of the younger generation look at the outcomes of previous generations but disregard the difficulties in getting there. Their own outcome (in terms of housing and wealth) hasn't been determined yet. I think there will be opportunities to buy in the future for those who manage to save while they are young. I think some understand this, you need to accumulate savings/wealth starting in your 20's. Obviously for some it is easier than others, but if you are living at home for several years after college while working, you should be saving large amounts each month.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058290738/theres-a-reason-why-this-generation-is-worse-off-than-their-parents

While those people night be misguided I agree with that part, but so are you.

The cost of housing vs wages is completely distorted out of proportion. From 3 or 4 decades ago.

The other aspect is Dublin and Ireland was in many aspects a run down backwater kip. Half of it was derelict. It wasn't on the map like it is today. It's unrecognizable from what it used to be. It's completely unrealistic to compare them.

dublin49

I bought my first house back in 1990 for 48K and at one time interest rates rose to 15% so its pointless comparing prices then and now.In my view house prices are affordable to a good proportion of potential buyers ,theres just not enough supply currently available.We need more change of ownership to suit needs so first time buyers should start off buying apartments,trading up to houses when kids arrive and older couples trading down from big houses to Apartments when that is more appropiate to their needs.

Galwayguy35

It might have helped if Prime Time interviewed a few ordinary people instead of posh talking folks from South Dublin who were born with a silver spoon up their hole.

The bank of mammy and daddy is always an option for those people.

Having said that its a sellers market these days, even in an area like where I live the prices for the few houses that are up for sale is crazy.

I bought back in 2007 at the tail end of the boom, its a 200 k mortgage over 30 years and to keep it paid its a no frills lifestyle, I'm not sure if the 20 somethings would be prepared to put up with no holidays or travelling the world in order to get a mortgage and a house even if more housing stock was available.

The Ireland they grew up in was a lot more comfortable compared to the one I grew up in back in the 1970s and 80s.

NIMAN

If I think back to my parents in the 70s and 80s, they definitely did not spend money foolishly, at least not compared to how I have spent money over the last 25 odd years.

I have had numerous holidays and city breaks, hundreds of nights on the beer, money spent of gadgets, home cinema systems, dvds, cds, clothes etc.

There's no comparison to how they spent their money and how I spent mine.

Flinty997

The lack of supply relative to demand is the only issue. They could also make cheaper housing.

But no one wants to do that.

A house or property in the 70s or 80s was far more spartan (and colder) than properties built today. One bathroom. Single glazing. Cheaper to build also. But it would be better than nothing.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430574#Comment_120430574

Very true. They were thifty. Money was hard got so not spent easily.

tayto lover

I don't see anyone going to school in their bare feet like many of us did or trying to catch a few rabbits or fish for the dinner. Only those with money went to college in the early 50's and few even went to the tech or any secondary school. It was off to England or the US to work on building sites.

Holly is obviously just another snowflake.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430608#Comment_120430608

One thing that occurred to me was Holly is not as rich as her parents as she hasn't inherited the farm yet. When she does, with the TD's pension, she will be even better off than they were.

Shoog

The opening comment is the typical guff from a greying fogy who has lost touch with reality. It's endemic in the most privileged generation (boomers) the world has ever seen.

It's a bit late to tell them to grow up.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058290738/theres-a-reason-why-this-generation-is-worse-off-than-their-parents

...yes its definitely the fault of younger generations, definitely, and absolutely nothing to do with the fundamentally flawed political and economic ideologies older generations have been pursuing for decades, definitely not!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430574#Comment_120430574

You aren't really comparing like with like.

A trip to Spain in the 70's or 80's would probably be the guts of a year of mortgage repayments

Gadgets and clothes were also much more expensive back then. There are many things you will buy today - especially the likes of clothes and toys for kids - that would have cost more - even nominally - 40 years ago. If you wanted to project back from their time, you could probably say they were flippantly spending money on the likes of radios or renting TVs that their parents would never have dreamed of spending back in the 30's and 40's

Regardless, savings or not would only be an issue if people were unable to pay for the construction costs of a house. But that isn't the case. Any additional money paid for houses just goes into the pocket of someone else creaming it off.

An analogy would be a complaint that there aren't nearly enough places for training doctors in university and people suggesting that the solution to that problem is for students to study harder to get even more points.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430619#Comment_120430619

I saw a good example on another thread of a similar individual who blamed young people on not doing smart things like him and giving the example of putting 2c over a round euro amount into a fill of diesel so that he could get that 2c for free (due to the garage rounding it down)................although to be fair, some are probably still stuck in the mentality of back in the day when if you found a 2p coin on the road you could use it as the deposit on a house.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430655#Comment_120430655

But my general point was they didn't spend money 'foolishly'.

Now the term foolishly will mean different things to different people, but the general gist is that they spent money on essentials for the house and the family, and there was very little spending that wasn't considered necessary.

A day out for the family would often have involved a beach or a park, something that was free. Of course we still do those things now too, but often a day out now might be a treat like a trip to a cafe and then cinema, costing a pile of money.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430674#Comment_120430674

Did they have a TV? Bought or rented? How about a car?

Jack Daw

People have always been sold the idea, get an education , work hard get a good job , put some money aside and you'll have the good things in life like a home of your own (which is generally the most important economic decision a person makes).

Problem is even if you do everything right and it's still way too difficult to own your own home and much more difficult than in previous generations.

My parents made no effort at their education , did fairly normal job made no effort at moving up in their careers and yet still were easily able to afford a home and have plenty of money for socialising, smoking drinking and a family holiday etc.

People in their 20's and 30's look at their own parents can see that it was much easier for them to get a home and wonder surely things are meant to get better for the next generation not worse.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430688#Comment_120430688

The trick is to get your name on the resources, and then pull up the ladder and organise things so that you can coast off future generations backs.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430580#Comment_120430580

Definitely houses are different now to the 70s (70s was boom time in Ireland ) ,

I was a estate house next to the one we lived in during the 70s ,( I was 5 when we moved ) , and realized that originally that house had crappy single glazing , no insulation , built with cavity block , no heating , no fitted kitchen , no tiling , hell no shower ( a rubber hose "shampoo spray ") , no wooden floors through out .. ect ect ect,

Also mortgages were over a much shorter time - 20 years more than likely-

Now 30 or 35 years ..

Markcheese

Still with all that the main driver of cost of housing is supply and demand -

And there's no alternative because rents are astronomical , which is probably more of a problem

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430719#Comment_120430719

It is almost guaranteed that your house in the 70's was opulent luxury compared to what your grandparents (or great grandparents) lived in in the 1920's.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120430655#Comment_120430655

Thanked this post.

The cost of these goods and services has been arbitraged by out-sourcing, in-sourcing and a few other methods. This can't be done with fixed assets like housing. So housing gets more expensive while everything else gets cheaper.

This gives the illusion that people are getting richer (they aren't) while also squandering all their money/wealth unlike previous generations (supposedly).

Many posters don't understand that there are deflationary forces and inflationary forces working simultaneously but separately, impacting in different ways on different costs.

I say people aren't getting richer because I believe fixed costs such as housing are a truer reflection of monetary inflation than Ryanair flights or a tshirt made in a Bangledeshi sweatshop.

All I will say by way of concession is that there is some truth to people being addicted to spending and this is perhaps a factor, but it cannot serve as a general explanation for people being worse off. That is only obscuring the big picture.