No money there to help financially for dying family member

Sunrise_Sunset

My mother in law has advanced lung cancer with bone metastasis. I've been told by another family member who works in the medical field that the prognosis is about 6-9 months. So, unfortunately that means she's already in the latter stages of this time frame.

The hospital now want to do a scan, but want to admit her until there's availability for it. She refused and said she'd get the scan done privately instead, so that she doesn't need to be admitted to hospital while she waits. Trouble is, she has no money to do so. She asked my husband for money.

I think the scan is probably to see how advanced the metastasis is before they proceed with more treatment. She did have a few scans after the first round of treatment but for whatever reason an MRI wasn't done. She has now also been referred for radiotherapy. All of the treatment she is receiving is palliative.

Our financial situation has changed in recent months and I am without a job. We are a family of 4 living on one income. I sympathise with her, I really do, but she has asked us for this money that we don't have right now. But, my husband would never say no. She does have other children too.

My husband then also said to me, that if they don't have money for the scan, they definitely don't have money for her funeral, which unfortunately is going to be an inevitability in the next 3 months or so. There's no savings, no insurance policy, no estate. I saw a funeral bill just 6 months ago, of one of my own family members, and it was 10k. And that was a very standard coffin, only a few flowers, really nothing extravagant. Thankfully there was an insurance policy to cover the cost.

I guess my post is asking what we should do in this situation. She has other children, would it be fair to ask them all to chip in for the scan? I don't know what their financial situations are like. It would be very hard to tell her she needs to just wait for the HSE scan when she has already refused it, yet she can't afford it privately. And then there's the matter of the inevitable funeral. I don't know what to do. I don't want my family going into debt to pay for a funeral. What do families usually do in these situations? It wouldn't be a pauper's funeral as obviously she has family who love her, it's just that there's no funds there to pay for it. Unless the other siblings are in a better financial situation, I have a feeling they're not though.

wildwillow

Tell her things have changed and you can’t afford it. She should take the scan offered.

As for funeral expenses, again it is not your issue. Cost will come from her estate and is her executor’s problem. Does she own her house? Your family are more important and you need to think of your own future.

i know this sounds cruel but you need to be realistic. If the scan was only available privately then it might be another matter.

AndrewJRenko

Sorry for your trouble. I don’t have any practical help to offer.

It is interesting to see the ads on UK daytime TV for low cost funerals. It doesn’t seem to be a thing over here yet. Sure what would the neighbours think if we didn’t have the fancy cars and the fancy coffin.

If you are going to keep funeral costs down, someone is going to have to keep tight control of things.

Sunrise_Sunset

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457011#Comment_120457011

He has already agreed to the cost of the scan. Without even knowing the price. At first he told me we might have to chip in towards it. I said fine, we can chip in maybe 100 euro or something and then the other siblings chip in the same, hopefully that'd be enough to cover the cost. I did say though, what if that one scan turns into another, and then more money for for more private care.

As for the inevitable funeral costs, they have no savings, no insurance policy and no estate. The house is a council house. Her husband will be left but he won't have the money for it.

We live frugally, and even more so now we are down to one income, I am trying to set up as self employed but that requires some investment too, that I may have to take out a loan for too, but it'd be an investment for our family's future. I don't mean for that to come off as harsh. But I feel we need to put our own family first.

Sunrise_Sunset

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457044#Comment_120457044

Yeah, I already have it in my head that I will need to have a conversation with him when the time comes about a low cost funeral, maybe cremation etc. But it'll be up to her husband to arrange. How do families deal with these difficult conversations? I think I'd be ok saying it to my own family, but when it's my in laws it's different.

SteM

Regarding the funeral, it's a difficult conversation to have but your husband's family need to start preparing now.

If there are no savings in place then a savings plan should be put in place asap, each sibling contributing x amount each month. Then there won't be such a big outlay at the time.

It's obviously something your family won't want to talk about but better to do it now and be prepared.

covidcustomer

I think that the whole family needs to sit down and have this conversation, decide what is best for your mother in law and arrange to contribute for scans etc.

Regarding the funeral expenses, there are grants to assist with the cost of the funeral in the event that the family cannot pay, here is a very good link for you to look at:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/847761-recently-bereaved/#

This one seems to address the issue:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c58b3-income-supports-following-a-bereavement/

Support towards funeral costs

Supplementary Welfare Allowance assistance towards Funeral Expenses

In certain circumstances, if your family are unable to cover the cost of funeral expenses you can make an application for an Additional Needs Payment from the Community Welfare Service by using the SWA1 and SWA5 application forms.

An Additional Needs Payment aims to help you meet essential, once-off payments which you can not reasonably be expected to pay out of your weekly income.

You might also consider contacting your MIL's local community nurse and have an end of life care discussion.

I hope this helps, you are right, this should not be your family's burden and hopefully with the help of your husbands siblings you can avoid any of the issues that concern you.

wildwillow

I think you need a conversation with your husband about how you handle finances. Surely such an expenditure should be a join decision. Your family will end up like his parents unless you can get him on a different mindset.

I often find that people who have no savings use sympathy as a vehicle for other people taking on their responsibilities.

Suggest a Gofund me appeal and see how the family react.

SuperBowserWorld

It's annoying when people who don't save or who spend their money on things they can't afford expect others to bail them out. But hey, that's how society rolls it seems.

Sunrise_Sunset

My husband is just more lacksa daisy (?) about money. Always has been. He wouldn't intentionally or maliciously try to make financial decisions without me. I will raise it with him again, but I don't want to come off as cold or uncaring either, cos that's not my intention. I have to walk the line.

In our current situation, I'd say we could help out with maybe €100 a month. Not a lot really, is it. But that's where we are. It won't be forever, but it is for now.

Thank you covidcustomer for the information above, that's helpful.

Sunrise_Sunset

I agree. And I definitely don't want to be a financial burden on our kids, when we get older.

Does she have a credit union account? If so, credit unions usually contribute a couple of thousand towards funeral costs for full members. It should be enough to cover a cremation.

As for the MRI, if she has a medical card see if she can get a reduction on the cost of an MRI with Affidea. MRIs there start at €325 (without GMS card). I got one there a few years ago, and because I had a GMS card, the HSE paid €200 towards it.

There is also a €200 cost of living payment being made the last week of April to some social welfare recipients. Are she or her husband eligible for that? They could put it towards the MRI.

She and her husband must have some income. Utimately, if they can't meet the full cost, I would contribute according to my means, but not pay the full cost, and I would hope siblings would do the same.

(eta- there is also going to be extra child benefit paid, I think in May, of €100 per child? Not saying you should use it to be your MILs scan, but it may help ease some of the pressure on your family).

fits

If I were you I would explain to your husband your concerns and limits and ask him to get together with his family to find a way forward.

You should stay out of this discussion and prepare to support your husband in the difficult months ahead. it’s his family and they need to sort it out among themselves.

I recently cremated my father*. The bill came to 4000, just letting you know.

My advice is to open a credit union account and put your savings into it each week/month.

Credit Unions will often give you a loan matching your balance in your credit union account.

Like you I am of limited means right now, and can't afford to pay off the undertaker, who, thankfully has been very understaning. After paying some of it, we have agreed that the balance will be paid off from the proceeds of his estate. Does your MIL have any assets?

*I didnt cremate him myself, the undertakers organised that. Just to clarify.

laoisgem

I used to work for an undertaker, I can't recall anyone paying for a funeral in full, was always by instalments.

The only thing you can do OP is talk to your husband and lay all your cards on the table. It's up to him to communicate with the rest of the family.

Furze99

Your husband is acting in a generous way and that is a good quality. But really you do need to have a chat and ask him to sit down/ arrange a meeting with his siblings and your father in law and figure this out before things progress further. Otherwise these situations have the capacity to cause rancour and resentment.

This is an appalling burden for you to be under, OP, I really can’t say in all honesty about recent terms with undertakers, the last funeral I handled being in 2015. Cash flow may now be an issue with them, especially with inflation being factored in, but I know that years past they used to be patient about receiving money, taking it, hopefully, from the proceeds of the estate, of course if there is sufficient estate. Undertakers overall have guaranteed business and have been quietly generous in playing their part in undertaking the funerals of people without means.

freewheeler

Without meaning to jump the gun, i believe the average funeral cost in Ireland is approximately €6,500, and that it is possible to get the price down to around €5,000 (or even less) depending on options chosen.

Sunrise_Sunset

My husband is going to talk to her and make her see sense regarding the MRI. Apparently now there are also long enough wait times in the private sector, as the HSE are referring people privately, so there's no guarantee she'd be seen any sooner, the only difference being she wouldn't need to be admitted as an inpatient while she waits. Unfortunately the MRI is not going to cure her, or extend her life. She's not in a position to refuse HSE care, and she needs to listen to the doctors. Of course things of a similar vein have been said to her before and she doesn't listen. It's impossible to drum any sense into some people.

Interesting regarding some of the funeral costs above. My Dad's funeral was 7 months ago and it was a 10k bill. That was in Dublin, and it was really nothing flash at all, with the exception of a small afters in a local pub which could've reduced the bill to about 9-9.5k. Also with (what I'd been told) is an inexpensive funeral home, compared to others in the area. Thankfully there was an insurance policy which covered the cost.

JupiterKid

OP I am very sorry to hear of your concerns in relation to your husband’s family and his dying mother.

Not meaning to sound harsh, but his parents seem like they are reaping the consequences of very poor life choices and a complete lack of any forward planning with respect to managing their finances for such eventualities and then just expecting their adult children to foot the bills, pick up the mess without any regard to their own limited means and their own family priorities and needs. It comes across as very entitled and very selfish.

I think you need to get your husband and his siblings to all sit down, calmly discuss the issues and flesh out a workable and realistic plan for their parents going forward. It seems like emotional manipulation is being used by his terminally ill mother and he is only too willing to indulge her without thinking of the sacrifices that might have to be made in relation to the needs of his own immediate family.

Sunrise_Sunset

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468724#Comment_120468724

I don't disagree with you. I tried to word everything as politely as I could in my post because I don't want to come across as harsh either, but I'm also extremely frustrated by the entire situation.

My family didn't have a lot of money growing up, I grew up in a very similar area and similar household income to my husband, but my parents bought their house from the council, even though it was very tough for them at the time, and they took out a life insurance policy too. Forward thinking as you say.

The fact is now there will be no money there for a funeral, and so a plan will need to be put in place. I figure, if all siblings even pay 100 euros per month off it, that's 1k every 2 months, and not bad going really. Hopefully there should be some help with a grant too.

As for the MRI she wanted in private healthcare. Only one place replied, and they quoted 850 euros and a month's wait! The private sector is now getting overwhelmed by the overflow from the public sector. My husband told her she has no option but to go back to the hospital for the scan. I wouldn't imagine the conversation went well (I didn't ask any further details), she's an obstinate woman at best.

Dyr

Get your ducks in row OP, I wound up in a similar situation when my father died, I shelled out over 10k for all the funeral costs upfront despite being from a family of six. None of the others ever saved a penny in their lives. Having worked my whole life, I'm fairly financially secure. TBH I never asked them for money and they never offered. I just looked on it as doing right by the old man.

Some of them then fell out with me because they didn't like how the funeral was arranged.

So line them all up now and lay it down.

iniscealtra

Talk to everyone about saving for the funeral. Start putting money aside. I put 50 euro a week in the credit Union. My father died last year. My mother, brother and myself split the cost. Medical bills were taken care of by the medical card and the fair deal. So no costs there. My mother is in good health thankfully but there will be another funeral to pay for at some stage between me and my brother. I don’t mind in fairness. They made sure I was well educated and didn’t have to work during the academic year when at university and my dad bought me my first two cars so I could save. My parents would have been careful with their money but not big earners. Hopefully the rest will pull their weight OP.

screamer

shes his mother, and if he wants to help with the cost of her scan, I think you’d be very wrong to stop that. Things might be tight for you now, but you have years ahead of you to earn money, she has a few months. There won’t be much he can do for his mum for very long, I know I wouldn’t stop my husband helping his mum out, much as I mightn’t like it. when someone dies, the whatifs and ifonlys can really hit hard, and I wouldn’t want to be the one who stopped him helping his mum in her dying days, could really affect a relationship badly. As for funeral expenses, that’s a conversation for the larger family to discuss, you can’t shoulder that alone but you may well have to contribute a portion.

Victor

Might there be someone she will listen to about the scan and why she doesn't want to be an inpatient - maybe her GP?

I get the impression that undertakers understand they often won't be paid immediately, but they may offer a discount if they are paid somewhat promptly.