Illness benefit query
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10-04-2023 7:42pm#1
Hello. A friend of mine is on an Illness Benefit & has been signed off unfit for work over the last year by their own Doctor & another work doctor.
They were living with their partner & children when the Illness benefit started being paid to them. Then a Family law matter displaced my friend from their house which they jointly own with their partner & the children live there & had to move back to their parents in a different part of the country. My friend has decided to look into HAP in case its needed & was required to get copies of Birth certs etc. They mentioned this in a local Social welfare office & it was flagged that their owned home address was elsewhere in the country & to go to their local Social welfare office instead.
Then recently after this they received a call from an Inspector or investigator where the owned home address is located querying their home address & where they are living at present. The person enquired about the Relationship status to which my friend said "its a privste family matter at present". Their partner said they received a letter recently stating possible Social welfare fraud was taking place at the home. My friend is afraid they will take away the Illness benefit. They can't get into their owned home at present & don't want to tell the Inspector about any relationship difficulties.
They are due a call on this soon & don't know what to say to the Investigator. Any experience of this or advice? They are signed off unfit for work but due to Relationship difficulties are not in their Family home at present but do hope to return very soon. They never thought to mention anything to the Social welfare as it was a matter that they thought would sort itself out but has sadly dragged on. They are not trying to pull anything. The entitlement should remain the same they believe.
Thanks in advance.
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Comments
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It is the responsibility of any SW claimant to advise the department of any changes in circumstances.
Are they claiming illness benefit for the family while not living there? That might raise a flag with the department, even if it's a temporary situation.
Has the partner made a SW claim?
If they co-own a house, can they apply for HAP? (not a SW issue, and I don't know the answer).
Your friend needs to be clear about the current situation with the SW inspector when they visit.
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Think the partner has a children's allowance. The change in circumstances is out of my friends control. They are entitled to live there but the partner can pull a stunt & complain if they return. Its a sad situation.
Can they refuse a visit & offer to meet the officer at an office of their choice? I read you don't have to let them into your home. My friend is paying the mortgage on their home & the Illness benefit was given last year & their partner & children were factored into it. What's the worst that could happen? Thanks again.
Don't know about HAP while owning a home.
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The illness benefit was awarded to your friend under certain circumstances. When they were awarded it they agreed that if those circumstances changed they would notify the department immediately.
It has come to the attention of the department that their circumstances have changed hugely in 2 or 3 aspects.
As far as I can see your friend didn’t make any attempt to notify the Dept before he went into a SW office.
So they are in breach of their agreement with the department.
Understandably the department must now conduct an investigation into your friends entitlement to Illness Benefit.
Your friend is getting illness benefit in respect of themselves, their spouse and children. If your friend is no longer living with their family then it’s highly likely that, unless your friend is forwarding the entire payment to the other parent, that the parent living with the children has made a claim for a SW payment in their own right.
You mention children’s allowance. (Child benefit). That’s a monthly payment of €145 per child and wouldn’t be of very much use in running a household with children.
It’s simply a question of your friend telling the SW Inspector that they are no longer living at that address because they have separated from their family. The inspector will take it from there. Your friend must co operate with the inspector and respond promptly.
The Inspector has been asked to investigate your friends circumstances by a Deciding Officer of the Dept. If the inspector reports that your friend has refused to cooperate with him/her then your friends illness benefit will be canceled immediately.
Id be very surprised if it isn’t cancelled this week if they haven’t engaged with the inspector.
SW inspectors have the same powers as a Garda Sargent.
The inspector will call to the home address anyway. If your friend doesn’t live there then they won’t be there.
Regarding HAP, your friend will only be eligible if they are admitted onto a Local Authority Housing list. This involves completing a Housing Need Application form in the county in which they live.
As your friend already owns a house they will have to explain why they are in need of housing.
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Thanks for the above. They just messaged me stating it looks like their payment was reduced this week alright. Looks like the partner & children were removed but not fully sure.
They dont know what to do. Pretty much all the money was going on the mortgage & children & travelling to be with them etc. Have they any hope of getting it back to what they were getting all along if they go to an Inspector & tell them the whole story? They are being abused by the partner regarding access to the house yet handing over the cash for it? Should they just contact the Department over the payment or would this be a case of tough luck? They didn't know to contact anybody as they thought this thing would blow over.
Would part of the payment be possibly suspended while this investigation is ongoing? Don't think the partner is getting any SW payment as they work & get the children's allowance. Thanks in advance again.
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To answer your question, no, they won't be paid allowances for a partner and children they no longer live at the same address as.
If it is found they have been overpaid, they may also have to repay any over payment that has been made to them since they left the family home.
Their best approach with any SW Inspector is to cooperate fully, and answer every question completely honestly. They can say there have been relationship issues. The Inspectors have heard it all before, trust me.
If your friend genuinely did not understand that he needed to notify the Dept of the changes in his living circumstances, then he needs to put his hands up and tell them that. I can't stress this enough. It's a waste of everyone's time doing anything less than cooperating fully, as they will get to the bottom of it, and it will stand to him if he is seen as someone who made a genuine mistake and is cooperative.
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Basically regardless of if they knew or not, they needed to have communicated all changes in circumstances. They need to come clean completely and cooperate, if they're required to pay any overpayments back (Which they may have to), they may be able to get a more lenient repayment plan. Anything else other than doing that risks massive repercussions. I'd also be looking at getting them out if all his money was going to a place he pays for 🤷
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They’re not going to have the payment they were getting for the spouse and children returned to them.
They were getting that because they were living in the family home with the spouse and children. They’re not living there now so that has stopped and won’t be reinstated unless they are back in the family home living with the spouse and children again.
There isn’t any way to appeal this or change it. That’s just the way it is. The spouse has more than likely applied for a payment separately for themself and the children. The fact that the other parent is working doesn’t preclude them from possibly getting Working Family Payment and/or One Parent Family Payment from the Dept to supplement their wages.
Your friend needs to accept the situation they find themselves in right now. Yes, it may not be permanent but it is their current reality that they are out of the family home and unable to work due to illness.
Protesting that it is unfair and that the spouse is lying “this will all blow over in a few weeks” etc is not going to change anything and is a complete waste of time. SW and housing etc (public services in general) see that CURRENTLY your friend is living away from their family on a permanent basis and that is final until they can show evidence that they have returned to live permanently the family home.
If the mortgage payments are going out of your friends bank account and they think that they can no longer meet the mortgage every month then they need to contact the lender and be completely upfront with them too about how much they can afford if anything. The lenders are all very familiar with these situations and will offer solutions and options in order to avoid getting into a serious arrears issue.
As Loueze said they’re your friend will be glad in the end if they don’t try to avoid the SW inspector.
The plan for your friend is:
- contact the mortgage provider. Be frank with them.
- provide SW with whatever they require.
- If they have a medical card then notify medical cards of their new address. This is very important to avoid a situation where their medical card is also cancelled. If they don’t have a medical card then apply for one. This may involve looking for a new GP in the area where they’re now living.
- Apply to the local authority of the county in which they are living to be considered as “in need of housing”. Get all these things started now in order to avoid descending into chaos. Help can be got for free at the local Citizens Information Centre and MABS office.
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Thanks for the above. They contacted the Mortgage provider & all is up to date at present. No arrears.
They found out the partner is getting the One parent family allowance which is now affecting their Illness benefit. My friend literally had no clue. They reached out to the SW & informed them of the situation & they told him contact the Illness benefit crowd who told them contact the local office who told them contact the Illness benefit crowd! They have informed them what happened. Is there no way to appeal this? What his partner did to have them removed from the home was absolutely disgusting & is an ongoing matter.
They want to get accomodation so they can be near the children so they can get equal custody should it all finally end. What are the best & quickest options? They have nothing but the Illness benefit. I'm very worried for my friend as to see how something like this can happen to a good person is truly frightening.
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Can the partner get Children's allowance & One parent family allowance at the same time? How much is it & what's the criteria to get it? Thanks
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Yes, they can get both..
He has no grounds for appeal if he is no longer living at the family home.
One parent family payment is means tested where the claimant is in employment, so if his ex-partner is working she will only be in receipt of a partial payment based on her means as assessed by SW.
SW have no interest in the details of the breakdown of the relationship other than the fact that they are no longer cohabitating. He can also expect to be contacted by the MRU (Maintenance Recovery Unit) at some point about what contribution he has made towards maintenance (including mortgage payments).
Every family gets child benefit regardless of income or circumstances. It's a universal payment.
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You don’t appear to be absorbing or understanding very much of the information and advice you’re getting here.
Your friends estranged partner is now getting One Parent Family Payment. This is perfectly legitimate as they are a parent who is parenting alone at the moment. They are of course getting child benefit (you call it children’s allowance) too. If they are working 19 hours per week they may also be entitled to Working Family Payment too. The amount she is getting from SW in total depends on how much she earns from employment and how many children she has living with her and how old each child is.
Im interested in how you imagined she would manage if she didn’t get help from SW?
Your friend is entitled to a maximum of €220 per week and no more. They cannot get a payment for the wife and children any more because they’re not maintaining them because they’re not living with them. There’s no grounds for appeal.
Any SW money for the children the estranged partner is getting she is entitled to get because the children are living with her. She is feeding them dressing them keeping them warm etc
Your friend only has himself to feed/dress/keep warm and he is an adult. Surely you can understand this?
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The information is appreciated. Its a shock to my friend. He has been contributing the vast majority of the mortgage & can back this up.
Never heard of MRU? There is no official maintenance agreement in place. My friend also has at present joint custody of the children & takes good care of them. They have kept receipts for everything they have spent on them etc. How can they be chased for maintenance if no agreement is in place?
Also could some of you assist with the accomodation question?
Thanks again folks. It's appreciated.
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The Maintenance Recovery Unit (now apparently renamed the Liable Relatives Unit) is tasked with following up with liable relatives to assess their means towards making a contribution towards the cost of paying allowances to ex-partners under the "Liability to Maintain Family" rules.
You'll also find more information here: (Opens as PDF) One Parent Family Payment and Maintenance.
I can't assist with the accommodation problem, other than you friend would need to show he shares custody and has a housing need, and be accepted for and placed on the local authority housing list in order to qualify for assistance with renting. He may have more success with housing associations like Tuath, Cluid or Respond, but again, I am unsure if someone who technically jointly owns a property, will qualify.
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I already replied to you about getting on the housing list with the local authority. If your friend is homeless then they’ll have to report to the homeless section of the housing Dept at their local authority office.
If the mother of the children has been awarded OPFP then the SW Dept will ask your friend to show them his financial situation including income and savings so that they can work out how much, if anything, he can afford to contribute to the financial maintenance of his children.
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Just to clarify something here
There is no official maintenance agreement in place.
Then its best to get one in place, as monies collected by the LRU (formerly MRU) do not get passed on to the claimant, in this case, the mother. It goes back into the State coffers to offset the cost to the taxpayer of the payment being made to her.
They will take your friend's contributions and mortgage payments into consideration. Going forward, it will be more beneficial to the children if the parents can agree a regular maintenance amount between them, (and if necessary, get this made into a court order), as the funds will then go directly to the support of the children and the claimant is only means tested on 50% of it.
If there is agreed maintenance in place, even if its only a small amount, the LRU will take that into considereation in their assessment towards the condition to maintain family being met.
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