Anyone exit Suckler system??

Anto_Meath

Looking at Cootehill tonight, someone had about 20 super suckler cows with calves at foot (3-4 months old) and back with the bull, from around €2,100 to €3,100 and most were around the €3k mark. Its good money for anyone selling out.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479556#Comment_120479556

Will those cows be hanging up in a few days i wonder?

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478620#Comment_120478620

You need hard coarse ground (hill) to outwinter in the SW.

Different place every year.

Around wherever you put the bale will grow Rushes for a couple of years after but if grazed tightly in the summer they will go away in time.

Controlling rushes organically is a challenge - yes, but if cut about 2 to 3 times a year and grazed they'll be overpowered by grass.

Lots of lads complaining about rushes cut or spray them about every 3 years and wonder why they don't die off..

Who2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479587#Comment_120479587

There was nothing there for hanging up. A lot of them had strong august/ sep calves with them so they weren’t overly fleshed. I know a few of the homes they went to and they were for further breeding. They were way too dear for what they were.

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479813#Comment_120479813

Would disagree about control rushes through cut/graze. I top them 3 times a year(after each rotation), mulch them, graze them, cut bale and take away and my username is there for a reason.

With the dexters often see them in organic as yearlings plus only making 250 or 1 euro a kilo.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482754#Comment_120482754

Agree with you about the yearling Dexters being often cheap but they're making double that at the moment.

In Dexters the money is in finished cattle only.

Re rushes, - soil type, and water control have a role as well, - there are places in the country that they just can't be stopped if there's any cattle grazing going on. But there equally are lots of places where they can with a bit of persistence but aren't kept on top of. Even on poor soil.

K.G.

Been giving some thought to thebeef industry and i m just wondering are any full time comercial beef men left ie no off farm income or cows.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483381#Comment_120483381

A poll of that question here would be interesting and may help shed light

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483570#Comment_120483570

Have Dexters now a few years and find they do a great job on the type of marginal land I have in North Mayo - however my experience is that you really need to see what type of herd your getting new stock from when buying in blood from a new source. I learnt that the hard way when I didn't do my homework and ended up with some poorer stock on my hands for a couple of seasons when I started off with the breed.

Anto_Meath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482420#Comment_120482420

Yes the calves defiantly helped to sell the cows. they weren't overly big heavy cows. But the calves were good quality. When it comes to killing cows I have found it never pays to kill a cow just after taking the calf off her, she will kill out poor. Best to level her for few months if you can, they will firm up and kill out far better. Now it is mostly LMx cows I have so they would never go over fat unlike say a HEx.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120474031#Comment_120474031

Shh.....don't be telling them 😕 they will all be at it

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476649#Comment_120476649

300-400 kgs.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477896#Comment_120477896

If I on fairly decent and I was getting out of sucklers I get rid of the bull first. I rear the calves and fatten the cows over two years. The first year I wean any early calves at 4 months ( Feb/March born). The following year fatten the last of the cows early in the year.

thinkabouit

Apparently there’s been a huge amount of beef farmers in the United state’s after selling up or have just given up.

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489927#Comment_120489927

Beef prices are gone very high out there I believe. I saw one American farmer on TikTok saying cows that would normally be going to the factory are being let out to fatten more or even breed again.

jfh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489923#Comment_120489923

Tell me more bass, contemplating exiting myself, looking at exit strategy, bull is gone, but don't want to get rid of all the cows in one big bang. Was thinking of selling the better cows with calves at foot around Sept, fatten the older cows and keep their calves to finish.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493400#Comment_120493400

Most buyers is going to split the cow and calves at that stage of the year anyway. Remember if you sell haf your cows in September you will really drop your silage requirement anyway. January to March claves will be nearly 200 kgs by July. They will be well fit to wean. Usually those cows will be getting fat from early summer grass. Take away the calves and they will fatten away as they have nothing drawing off them. If they are beef/dairy cross they will do way better fattened than with calves at foot IMO. If you have the bull gone they will not be incalf anyway, if you think any were caught before he went inject them.

Cows with calves at foot do not sell well in the autumn. Feed the calves a kg of a good beef nut they will thrive away

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489904#Comment_120489904

Don't think they will. They had over 20 years to make the change and most didnt. Lots of people would be ashamed to have a herd of fresian.cattle

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493491#Comment_120493491

nothing wrong with them when the are hanging.

All this excitement about freisian bullocks that sometimes have to be kept for a third winter. Sure if there was that much money in them then they wouldn’t be left out of the country in calf exports.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493400#Comment_120493400

Assuming they were calved this spring couldn’t you wean the calves towards mid May and hang up the cows then towards the end of June. The calves won’t have much taken out of the cows by then.

You could fire the calves through the mart then and rent out the land at say 4 to 500 an acre or keep the calves and go down the calf to beef route.

There is some good detail here on calf to beef in the green acres participants https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/category/green-acres/

A big push on improving silage quality in the scheme which should provide a good improvement.

This lad is averaging Holstein freisian at 326 off grass at 29 months https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/reviewing-slaughter-performance-of-holstein-friesian-steers/

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495806#Comment_120495806

That is a very poor dead weight on Friesian cattle that any lad reared from calves. I be at or beating that and I am buying the very light stores.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496837#Comment_120496837

Yes but they got no meal the Holsteins finished off grass at 29 months. Maybe he could have got an extra 20 kilos on them if he fed them meal but it wouldn’t pay.

Id say he did well. Also, if he got them away under 30 in say May or June then he would get a premium price

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496908#Comment_120496908

Looking at the two bullocks. The first bullock 10072 was only 611 kgs. Was killed 50-70 kgs LW too light. That type of bullocks grades O-/= at 340kgs DW. Very poor ADWG at 0.6kg/day since birth. Those types of HO( tall white legs and belly) usually thrive and have decent weight gains but need to get the weight on

41106 was actually probably not as good a a bullocks. You get some really tall bullocks in those type of black and whites. However he had the weight. He should have been fed and finished in early June to allow for grass for the other lad

When you want to draft Friesian's you look at the piece of flesh just above the hind leg ( around the white bit on 10072) that needs to be filled a bit. On 106 it is on 72 it is empty

78 is is probably the best bullocks of the lot but just was short of of a high energy diet in last 6-7 weeks that piece of flesh is not filled out like I would want

798 was the poorest bullock there. I like to know which plant he went to because I would not exactly be rushing there he was no more 4- FS than Twiggy was in her day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496922#Comment_120496922

IMO they were short of energy in the last 6-8 weeks. The yellow fat off the grass only fools the machine into thinking they are fatter than they are. 6-8 weeks of ration at 3 kg/ day would have made a huge difference to them 50-60 euro. Some could have been drafted earlier ( fed from early May slaughtered late June) But even if they had only been feed from June 1st they would all be 15 kgs DW heavier 67 euro @4.5/ kg and so meal costs would be covered, the heavy P+ bullock would have graded at least O- ( 798 was a potential O= bullockI IMO) another 14c/ kg @370 average another is another 50 euro/ head.

The two light P should have been left there and carried to mid September. Neither are extreme HO. If fed 3 kg I definitely think that 72 would have graded O=at that stage. He have climbed two fat scores in 7-8 weeks. The over 30 months O= bonus 8c and 12c on the grades would have compensated for the risk of a price fall. He have killed 30-35kgs heavier.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497474#Comment_120497474

I think it’s marginal there. Like if he got them in 20 kilos heavier at let’s be optimistic €5 a kilo you are looking at 100.

Say they are 200 kgs (€350 a ton by .2) of meal over 7 weeks then you might be up 30 quid. Cattle would be hanging around waiting for meal as well not eating grass.

He did well, I think considering when he go them away and the weights. He must have some protein rich silage or must be really good on grass management.

Its a good model to get any cattle away off grass and not to be worrying about feeding meal or be more protected from meal price rises.

Id be attempting the same in suckler to beef or calf to beef.

Like with the volume of calves available from dairy (and continued expansion) there has to be scope to work with a dairy farmer in partnership (maybe even give them a dig out at calving) to maybe have first dibs on the best of his calves and avoid the mart.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497559#Comment_120497559

His silage must be shite as they only averaged 0.16kgs/day for the final winter inside. He had good LW gain the second summer at 0.77/ kg/ day.

They had also good KW gain going to grass probably a lot of compensatory growth at the first weighing.however it slowed down over the last six weeks. The ration would have sorted that.

Beef Isa small margin game. An extra 50 euro takes you from 200-250 net margin or 300-350 net margin.

I worried about his wintering and from calf to first housing.

Teagasc are on about his performance for the yearling grass season. While you might go a bit better it not soo bad at 0.77 kgs/ day.

He average 0.6ish kgs per day overall. His overall average was 326kgs DW or about 660/670LW. He had a load of P grade cattle.

Subtract ( 210 for yearling season and 140 for finishing season. That means from calf to yearling and for the second winter they gained a bit with half a kg/ day ( allowing for 40 kg birth weight). I have seen Friesian bulls 300+ at housing. You can buy them freely as yearling as bullocks at 300+ kgs.

Targets

At 8-9 months at housing 280 kgs

At 12/13 months 330 kgs

Second housing 520 kgs

At end of second winter 560 kgs

At slaughter from mid June on 700 kgs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497653#Comment_120497653

Like up against 30 months wouldn’t the daily weight gain be slowing anyway?

I think he might have got them 15 kgs heavier with meal. I think it’s really marginal and I think he performed exceptionally without using meal.

The grade was always going to be an issue on Holsteins but they are good weights.

If his silage is poor then if he improves it and maybe source better freisian calves and get them closer to say a 350 average that would be exceptional for freisians off grass at 29 months.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493559#Comment_120493559

Agree completely

Just on Dexter beef. Not sure if many have tried it. It’s a strong beef taste in my opinion. I think it has a much stronger taste than standard beef now that could be a good thing or a bad thing based on taste.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120501925#Comment_120501925

It tastes like beef used to taste.

70% of what's sold now is pure sh1t in my opinion. Cull cows, bony holsteins and fully meal finished continentals. No fat at all through it and consequently no flavour.

If finished correctly and provided the animal doesn't go cuckoo in the abbatoir Dexter is not tough either which can be a problem with some of them.

The one we're currently finishing eating here was only hung 18 days as the privk of a butcher wouldn't go longer - and I offered to pay him.

I'd prefer closer to 30.

Different butcher next time.