Why is the British media unhappy with Biden's Irish visit?

Piskin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486064#Comment_120486064

So True

Hermy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485134#Comment_120485134

There are also Scanlon, Roche, Boyle, Ward and Hannafy.

Piskin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486305#Comment_120486305

Roche & Boyle are Norman names and Ward is Old English.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489861#Comment_120489861

Normans and Old English are the same thing.

The Normans that invaded Ireland in the 12th century were referred to as Old English by the time the Elizabethan conquest came around in the 16th century and brought the New English.

And both were different from the native Gaelic Irish.

Ignacius

They see no irony in the unionists calling themselves British after being settled here hundreds of years ago.

They have never given up their Britishness. Why would Biden have to disavow his Irishness. 

Whining POM’s is what the Aussies call the Brit’s and the ruling classes/ media are really living up to that.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490094#Comment_120490094

They see no irony in the unionists calling themselves British after being settled here hundreds of years ago.

Well given the fact that NI is still part of Britain/UK I really don't see an issue with people from there calling themselves British of they want to.

swampgas

The British as a society, to an extent hard to understand from an Irish perspective, are obsessed with status and hierarchy. Where you live, who your family are, what car you drive, where you went to school, where you went to college, where you work, where you holiday, who you socialise with, how wealthy you are, whether you are old money or nouveau riche, and what accent you speak with, all of these are constantly being evaluated and assessed when the British interact with each other. Having a title, or a CBE or MBE or whatever, matters. Think of the value system of Pride and Prejudice and you're not far off. Everyone "knows their place", in the sense that they know where they are in the pecking order. Those at the top of the hierarchy are used to, and expect, a level of fawning deference far beyond what is normal in Ireland. These people, culturally, are not remotely egalitarian, and they are very sensitive to any challenge or snub to their exalted positions at the top of the heap. This carries over to the perceived status of their "kingdom", the UK. They are personally invested in it. So when a US President spends time with what they see as a country of inferior status, they can't help but see it as a snub. Lashing out at their perception of Biden's rudeness is curious too, in that they feel entitled to upbraid him for his temerity. They still feel that the US is one step away from being one of their (inferior) colonies, and so they can still be rebuked for not properly acknowledging their betters. It's absolutely laughable. (The same attitudes to status and hierarchy (IMO anyway) explain the constant clashes with and hatred of the institutions of the EU - culturally, they simply don't mesh.)

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490347#Comment_120490347

Nail on the head again….

and it’s this very reason they wanted out of the EU…. even more so since the expansion when the likes of Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, Bulgaria etc joined…… they were sat at a table as equals with these nations who they clearly see as not just below them, but a few levels below them…. And it must have burned them up inside….

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490347#Comment_120490347

I disagree. I've lived here for over a decade and I recognise none of this that I wouldn't see in other countries as well.

The reason for the outrage is much more banal IMO. The media here is the least trusted in Europe and has spent decades gaslighting the population with lies and diversion tactics. This is just their latest schtick.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490730#Comment_120490730

The UK aggressively lobbied for the expansion of the EU in 2004 and 2007. Along with Ireland and Sweden, they were one of three countries to place no restrictions on immigration from the new member states.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490347#Comment_120490347

Not dissimilar to Ireland tbh. People here worry about what the neighbours think, will I get a bigger SUV than the neighbours, if they have an accent from 'certain areas'.

We may not have a very large upper class but there are haves and have nots. Working class/affluent middle class/'squeezed' middle class areas in towns and cities exist here too. Old boys/crony networks exist.

Replace CBE/MBE with whatever GAA or rugby royalty you play/played for opens doors and that greases the way for you.

You'd swear sometimes the way Irish people go on that we are some sort of egalitarian workers paradise, complete BS. People from one level of our society here readily piss down and pull ladders up on others.

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490811#Comment_120490811

I've lived there for years myself, and have also interacted with some of those in the upper echelons both in the business world and in diplomatic circles. I have quite a few British friends who would agree with the bones of my analysis.

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490875#Comment_120490875

I don't disagree, every country has this to an extent, but the British have it at a whole other level (in my experience).

The Fawlty Towers episode where a fake Lord something or other turns up and Basil is incredibly obsequeous is funny because it's true. The toadying to the monarchy and the whole charade of the Honours List is all part of it. It leaves Ireland in the ha'penny place.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491049#Comment_120491049

It depends on who you're interacting with. If it's a lot of one percenters as you've hinted, then that's extremely likely. Most of my time is spent around students and working class people so I've never witnessed any of this.

swampgas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491072#Comment_120491072

Absolutely - it's just that I think the lunatics controlling a lot of the MSM in the Uk are very much part of the one percenters, or are trying to curry favour with them.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491088#Comment_120491088

Sounds like more of a general class thing than a British thing. I expect I'd be subjected to similar if I was trying to climb the ladder of the Parisian branch of KPMG or the like.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490811#Comment_120490811

I don't think its a "schtick" in the sense that they are putting it on, or writing it because they think it will drive attention or appeal to their readers though.

I think the kind of column writer who has come to prominence in the UK media is exactly the kind of thin-skinned, jealousy driven child who would genuinely get upset about not being the centre of attention.

Sam Russell

I think Hyacinth Bucket (Boo kay) is a perfect parody of the oft encountered "schtick" you describe. Highly thought of in her own mind but despised by all around her.

I think the vast majority of Irish take people as they find them, with no overt presumption of them.

George Bernard Shaw noted “It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him,” in his preface to Pygmalion. They are born snobs, or become snobs, but some do have it thrust upon them - and few ever escape from it.

Of course there are some in Irish society who ape that type of thing, but there you go - that is life.

saabsaab

Anti Irish feeling is still strong among certain circles in England.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/anti-irish-bigotry-in-britain-has-not-gone-away-1.4180940

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490811#Comment_120490811

The UK aggressively lobbied for the expansion of the EU in 2004 and 2007

but that was a Labour led U.K., and not the posh toff Tory party that took over in 2011. And then 5 years later Brexit happened.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491730#Comment_120491730

The Tories backed it as they did most New Labour policies.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491448#Comment_120491448

We know that well.

That's precisely why so many of us are trying to reunite our Country and move forward, to leave the little Britons to their Victorian masturbation fantasies and float off, impoverished, into the North Sea.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491049#Comment_120491049

I would agree on this one. Every country has a class system of course and haves and have nots, but the UK monarchy and honours system amplifies to a whole new level, especially in England itself. It didn't necessarily have to be be this way - the monarchy and honours system and House of Lords could very easily have gone out of fashion in the 20th century and come to have been seen as an anachronism, as happened in many other European countries.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491936#Comment_120491936

The House of Lords is probably the only bit of the legislature that actually works to be honest. Along with all party select committees, they're the only places where legislation is properly scrutinised. Sure, it's been stacked with intellectual nobodies that have donated to the Tories or said nice things about Brexit but it's also got a solid pool of talent as well.

That said, I do support it's being abolished or reformed into something more democratic.

retalivity

I see King Cathal is coming over for a state visit shortly after his coronation. Prepare for round 2 of 'OMG I CANT BELIEVE THE IRISH DID THAT/DID NOT DO THAT/DID NOT DO IT THE SAME AS THEY DID FOR BIDEN/INSULTED THE NEW KING' etc

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491970#Comment_120491970

That's correct. I've heard he is coming on a state visit in June or July or something.

hotmail.com

No doubt about it - anti English feeling is the highest for a while.

I suspect no Irish person will watch

hotmail.com

No doubt it - anti English feeling in Ireland is at peak levels at the moment.

I suspect no Irish person who hates England at the moment will watch the coronation or comment on royal matters like the Megan drama.

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491963#Comment_120491963

Yes, for those Lords and Ladies who do show up and take part, using their specialist expertise to properly scrutinise, it is a good thing. I'm not qualified to answer whether our Seanad is as effective, but I assume, like any other 2nd House, it is? Does the HoL now aim to be more reflective of UK society, even though it still has those within it who are only there because they were on the right side of battle or another, or one of their long forgotten ancestors performed favours for the sitting monarch?

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492090#Comment_120492090

True enough no interest here. A whole pile of insult and unwelcomeness coming Cathal's way.

Larbre34

While Charles and Carl do both derive from the Latin Christian name Carolus, Séarlas is the more correct translation of Charles while Cathal is closer to Carl.

So An Rí Séarlas a Trí will be his given Irish address when the State visit happens. Just to confuse the Brits massively like.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492275#Comment_120492275

Fair enough. I thought that Cathal meant warlike?

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492082#Comment_120492082

Peak levels of sarcasm here.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480157#Comment_120480157

'it is a deliberate snub of the royal family.

yes, it is true that no US president has attended the coronation of a british monarch'

so its not a deliberate snub? does anyone read/edit this sh1te before its published?

AndyBoBandy

If King Charles wants to visit Ireland, then I'm all for it…. If he wants to visit us once a year then fine by me….

Id have no interest in the visit itself but rather the economic benefit such a visit would have for us, and the publicity it would shine on Ireland for the few days of the visit…… the exact same feeling I had with the Biden visit.

I guarantee you there are Americans who’s never even thought of visiting Ireland before who are now planning their trips on the back of the Biden visit, and it’ll be no different for Brits following a visit from Charles Windsor.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492090#Comment_120492090

I think that is mainly focused in on the Tory Brexit regime and the Daily Telegraph, Daily Mail, GB News etc.

Is Keir Starmer unpopular in Ireland? John Major? Gary Lineker? King Charles?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492487#Comment_120492487

Based on what? Biden is the US president whereas the UK and the Windsors' prestige has been annihilated by Brexit. I doubt anyone outside Ireland is bothered if Charles visits or not.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492492#Comment_120492492

The inflammatory image came from The Times of London, the paper of record in England.

I doubt there's much hatred towards GB News as it's not shown in Ireland and receives almost no viewers in England.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492623#Comment_120492623

Based on it most likely being covered wall to wall in British media, exposing a market of 60m to Ireland, and all Ireland has to offer.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492714#Comment_120492714

Nothing really in fairness. The market of almost 70 million is well aware of Ireland.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492714#Comment_120492714

All we have to offer is conspicuous wealth.

With our 10 to 16 billion quid budget surpluses while Britain burns, it seems almost uncouth to show them what Ireland has to offer.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493054#Comment_120493054

All them surpluses and no train link to our only large airport.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493054#Comment_120493054

That looks like it should be in the United Ireland thread.

Unionists were always swayed by the half-crown more than the crown.

coolbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493054#Comment_120493054

... and shite infrastructure. We've plenty of cash in the exchequer but we're not wealthy by any means. We're rich (for now) but certainly not wealthy.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493090#Comment_120493090

I don't think lack of money was ever the issue there. More like bad planning, lack of vision, lack of joined up thinking etc.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493501#Comment_120493501

= backward.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493120#Comment_120493120

The IMF were needed for this country just 12 years ago. This seems to have been forgotten as well.

Piskin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490875#Comment_120490875

Spot on...The Irish love to point the finger. Some of the worst class conscious social climbing twats I have ever come across are Irish,

BaywatchHQ

The Newsletter newspaper was outraged at him not having a union flag on his car. This sums up Ulster unionists to me, they can't cope with any sort of comprises. Catholics on the other hand are well used to compromises, you don't hear Catholics complaining about him not waving Catholic Nationalist flags during his Co.Antrim visit. Many unionists still have the mindset that Catholics are a 30% minority and that they can have it all their own way.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485120#Comment_120485120

when he went to Britain and bypassed us, nobody here cared… it’s simply arrogance that enables the view that Biden should come all the way to Europe and prioritise little Ireland over the UK…

he’s been to the UK at least twice as president, whilst not coming to Irelandon those trips.…

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497759#Comment_120497759

But it's a valid query.

When dignitaries from other countries visit places you often see the cars with both countries flag on them, left and right at the front.

While in the south you had that with the tri-colour and the US flag, but in the north you didn't have the union flag and the US flag on the car, it was just the US flag.

Why was the union flag not on the car also ?.