Picard 3x10- 'The Last Generation' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507148#Comment_120507148

The spikeyness makes it look vaguely Breen.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507172#Comment_120507172

The Titan sets were reused from the Stargazer in season two so a name change to reuse the sets isn't necessary. Reusing the sets might even give Starfleet ships a consistent design aesthetic again.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507212#Comment_120507212

Why would you do that? What benefit is that to you?

I think some of you sabotage good fun by over thinking things. I actually watched JJs original ST the other week. Nothing in it took from Picard for me but I’m not as emotionally invested as some of you, I just want to watch an adventure with likeable characters and that’s what we got.

Im also not anywhere near as knowledgeable on all things Star Trek or TNG, so alot of the specifics (like size of Borg ship or continuity) don’t affect my enjoyment. I’d say that’s why it’s getting such superb reviews on IMDB, series 3 was a top notch standalone sci fi adventure when you don’t have the baggage of all that’s come before it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507172#Comment_120507172

I also don't think that, no matter the public calming, that Jerri Ryan would be bothered having her around again.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507212#Comment_120507212

That's fair enough. I suppose it depends on perspective.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507128#Comment_120507128

I actually was waiting for Data to plot their escape as the ship was exploding and was a bit dissapointed they didn’t do it like ROTJ.

Using the same baddies, Copying other material/movies/shows and having a very straight forward story line can be really entertaining when it’s done right. I’d argue series 3 used the Next generation crew to near perfection for the casual viewer to enjoy.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507267#Comment_120507267

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I enjoyed Picard 1 & 3. Thought the season was enjoyable. I love Easter eggs and nostalgia which is why Lower Decks is one of my favourite Star Trek shows.

But I'm not going to pretend this season was a massive departure from KurtzTrek in terms of theme or plot and I'm not gonna think Matalas has the skill to produce great Trek just because I got warm and fuzzy from seeing Geordie and Data together again.

eadrom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507375#Comment_120507375

Enjoyable to the casual viewer is well and good but there’s a reason Star Trek has the following it has, and those reasons are diminishing.

I doubt the people paying the bills and cashing the cheques care too much about it either but for a while there Star Trek was doing some pretty good world building and storytelling that was unique to it, at least on television.

Doesn’t feel like there’s anything particularly special about an Evil turning up once a year threaten the universe until our heroes find enough reasons to love and $plotDevice to stop them. Even when it is fun.

breezy1985

It's an awful pity better writers couldn't get their hands on that Founders plot.

Imagine a changeling plot told using political intrigue instead of a cigarette twirling cliche.

PhiloCypher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507754#Comment_120507754

And their had to be some political intrigue beyond planting Borg Code into transporter systems. They surely had to infiltrate the highest levels of starfleet to plant the idea years in advance , that slaving all their ships together was somehow a good idea .

corkie

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/star-trek-picard-cut-cameos.html

It’s not surprising that Terry Matalas was hoping that the Star Trek: Picard finale would include a Kate Mulgrew cameo for the scene in which Tuvok (Tim Russ) promotes Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan) to Captain.

.....

I have to admit to a bit of theorizing with Matalas’ mention of Star Trek: Picard “at one point” featuring a Garret Wang cameo as Harry Kim. Before the penultimate episode revealed Admiral Shelby (Elizabeth Dennehy) to be the Enterprise-F’s commanding officer, I predicted four possible choices with Kim being my top prediction and Shelby the number two. With Matalas revealing that he actually did want an appearance from Kim

Money Rules! :-(

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120501919#Comment_120501919

This, so Picard who was weirdly fostering a romance with her visual clone, then her, etc. Decides, f*ck her, I've got me old girlfriend back so to hell with her.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120508501#Comment_120508501

Real interesting part:

There is a scene in which they found Ro Laren in the dungeons of the Intrepid with Tuvok and that she had survived we weren’t able to pull off.

So, Ro could be around for Legacies if it gets made?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120508658#Comment_120508658

Even worse is how easy Riker forgot his still alive child. He was willing to die at Picards side as if it "is where he belongs" and he has a child at home.

Worf too but we know he doesn't give a shyte about his child.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120508708#Comment_120508708

Dying at Picard's side would save the Federation and almost certainly his son along with it.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120508996#Comment_120508996

His son is with the Klingons so he is fine anyway. Not that Worf cares.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509056#Comment_120509056

I meant Riker.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505805#Comment_120505805

Season 1 and 2 were as bad as Disco, only saved by slightly better characters / actors (and there were some terrible characters and actors in Picard, just to indicate how poor Disco was). Yes you are right, if Disco done the same as Picard Season 3, it would be sh1t because Burnham would do long boring dialogues, there would be long sweeping shots of the characters looking at one person rather than doing their jobs, instead of at least Picard having action bits as filler, and each Disco character not having as much charisma as even the weaker characters in Picard season 3. Jack probably being one of the weakest main characters (excluding Rafi but I imagine if I'd never seen 1 + 2 she would be better). As Picard went, it is watchable sci fi if you ignore season 1 and 2. Oddly they might be considered slightly realistic in the amount of pointless sub plots which barely made sense but also went nowhere, they had good bits but were overall bad. Picards weakest characters were more fleshed out than any in Discovery with the exception of the cyborg who in one episode achieved a simply fabulous bit of not only science fiction but television in general. The head engineer in Disco is also a good character but only in that she is a good actress and that may be one of the defining differences between the shows weaker seasons.

Also, what the f*** is with this word memberberries, god help me, I hate that word more than I hate Disco. Nostalgia is a fine word, use it, memberberries sounds like a ******** ******** teenager whose entire education has consisted of tiktok and youtube shorts with no real world interaction.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509141#Comment_120509141

That would be daughter then who we saw in S1. His son is the dead one.

And you are wrong in what you said. They had already blown up the Borg ship so Riker could have been saved and the Federation saved. He choose dying with Picard for no reason over going home to his daughter.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509241#Comment_120509241

Matalas said that Kestra is at Starfleet Academy at the time, but that would probably warrant a mention of her even more.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509152#Comment_120509152

Memberberries is from a South Park episode about how series like Star Wars and Star Trek are just regurgitating old shte to sell stuff to our aging generation who have hit the nostalgia stage of life

Again not arguing the PIC 3 is as bad as Disco or PIC 2. I would say PIC 1 is as good plot wise (plot wise not any other stuff) as this season.

My point is and always has been that when Matalas gets his next show there will be no TNG crew or Starfleet museum or Enterprise D and when you strip them out this season was just bad plots an ugly 23rd century ship that as stuck in to canonise some extended universe design (they love doing that now) and loads of mystery boxes within mystery boxes. Without all the TNG stuff it will essentially be PIC 2 which Matalas also made.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509260#Comment_120509260

Ya he has a habit of filling in a lot of blanks on Twitter but what's said on Twitter means fek all in terms of the show.

I shouldn't have to follow someone on Twitter to retroactively make sense of a poor plot.

ixoy

Isn't part of Pic 2's issues down to Patrick Stewart not wanting all the cast re-united immediately and having a degree of creative control?

Personally, I think Matalas has proven his mettle. Not so much necessarily in the major plot arc, but by realising that a proper crew means everything - not just one person - has value and contributes. Nostalgia helped, sure, but some of the fun banter and character beats would never have made it in Disco's showroom.

What I'd hope is the Legacy series would be allowed do more episode storylines and not drag out plot lines. 'Strange New Worlds' works much better with the traditional story model.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509314#Comment_120509314

Or do what DS9 did. One overarching storyline but every episode told its own story within that.

The current serialisation method is every episode being a cliffhanger for the next. No internal closure at all.

That works for a binge model, where you consume them all at once, but if they're insisting on weekly drops then it's a bit tiresome

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509314#Comment_120509314

I don't know about season 2 but Stewart had some demands about season 1 which were no Starfleet uniforms or ships for Picard.

On season 2 from Wikipedia

"Matalas and Goldsman replaced first-season showrunner Michael Chabon. The time travel story was conceived by Matalas and connects to Picard's struggles with his own history"

It also says it was Matalas who came up with putting Q in S2 and to give him a deeper story.

corkie

When Stewart was initially pitched about Picard," Oh, so different [comparing 'Picard' and 'TNG']. I turned it down at first. And then I thought about the offer and decided I would do it, but I made two conditions," he recalled. "I didn't want to wear a uniform, and it must not be a series that is fundamentally a sentimental reunion of 'The Next Generation.' And they agreed to that.

~~ https://bleedingcool.com/tv/star-trek-patrick-stewart-made-2-conditions-before-picard-return/

I never yelled as Picard — I mean, I may have done — 'The line must be drawn here!' [pronounced 'hee-yah,' the much-memed dialogue from the film 'Star Trek: First Contact'], for which I was made fun of for decades. Actually, there was one like it in the last episode, and I thought, "At least because there aren't any more episodes, nobody will be making fun of me." We made fun of one another a lot." For more, including Stewart sharing TNG memories, lifelong friendships from the cast, theatre, and more, you can check out the interview here.

What was the line like it in the last episode?

It got very sentimental in final episode !!??

ixoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509376#Comment_120509376

TBH, it was a post I saw on Reddit that he influenced S2 based on his own upbringing (he came from an abusive household). May be some merit in it.

The DS9 arc model actually, as 53N mentioned, is probably the best way to go. There's a little of it loosely in 'Strange New Worlds', although not as heavy.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120509272#Comment_120509272

It's still a really annoying word to me for some reason. People are right though, there is a lot of old sh1te that was cool as a fan but in reality, made no sense unless only maybe 6 crews in the entirety of the federation done interesting things.

So season 1 they tried to modernise/serialise a TNG movie but hadn't realised that Picard wasn't fit for that anymore and that they also had the ability to act, and that Trek fans are typically a bit more expectant of the underlying science (within reason) than the average binge sci fi fan. At no point did they think, maybe they should pivot a bit in style. Loads of little side plots that ultimately were just filler with no real point. Season 2 had promise but in fact just became an homage to The Voyage Home (a lot of it way to on the nose) and was poorly written with it saved again by a few decent actors but overall not very good at all, with yet again, a load of random filler fluff that made no sense. Season 3 made use of the fact that they had decent actors (well some at least), but they really went to far again with the filler and a few moments where someone from Disco got in and just lingered to long on each crew members face or them posing, dear lord, your way of life could be ending, pull the finger out and stop standing around. The caricature of a changeling made no sense and was at odds with the behaviour of every changeling we have ever seen. I know they have been separated and tortured but I don't think Wario became like he was because some of the Toadstools tortured a relation of Mario in the lab.

Anyway, all the ranting aside, I still enjoyed it but I really want to get some editing software and reedit the entire thing down to a few decent episodes to show them what could have been achieved. The comparison to Disco I can see but again, better actors, slightly better editors.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120506916#Comment_120506916

I enjoyed this season, but the fundamental story (as its been for all 3 seasons) was terrrribble! What made this season enjoyable was entirely the little interactions between the characters. Rather than complex, i'd call it needlessly hopelessly convoluted in ways that made absolutely no sense.

This writing team are just bad at writing story. They've proven themselves better at writing people than previous seasons, thankfully, but with plot its like they stick with the first idea thrown out in each instance and never go back to revisit if those ideas are good or not. The show would've been a lot better if, instead of force feeding new mystery plot beats down our throats, they went for something simpler, and simply spent more time with the characters and let moments and scenes and episodes breath.

All in all it was a reasonably fun season in spite of itself, thanks to a great cast who had some better dialogue to work with.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510485#Comment_120510485

I'm specifically talking about S3 in terms of complexity. There were a lot of different stories going on in it and in a certain respect it brought final closure to TNG, in an entertaining manner.