Landlord looking to sell - Thinking of buying

Phil1969

Our landlord wants to sell and we are considering buying from him and we are looking for a bit of advice please.

Questions:

1. Would it be a LOT easier for the landlord if we were buying from him?
2. The property is an apartment but it has no designated car parking space like some other apartments in the block. I was wondering if parking spaces are normally bought separately or are they generally rented from the management company?
3. Are top floor apartments harder to resell than lower floor apartments?

Any other advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Seth Brundle

In terms of #1, selling on the open market is likely to get a higher final sale price. Are you planning on offering this initially?

walterking

Top floor would be a premium over ground floor.

Less hassle for the LL, but massive benefits for you.

Main savings would be 1% agent fees and having to give you notice and wait until you vacate for a sale to be concluded.

Parking spaces are usually a management company issue if one is not attached to the apartment - this suggests it's close to good public transport

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120506913#Comment_120506913

If the price is fair compared to what others have sold for then yes that is my plan. Thanks

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120506936#Comment_120506936

Thanks. Would a landlord normally put the property up for sale with a sitting tenant?

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507021#Comment_120507021

Can happen, but selling with vacant possession is far more desirable for potential buyers and more the norm

Senature

I would think that if you were prepared to offer a reasonable price then the landlord would be delighted.

Takes out a lot of hassle of dealing with estate agents, advertising, viewings, giving notice to the tenant, stressing over the tenant leaving on time and the condition of the apartment once it is vacant. The process is likely to be a lot smoother and faster for the landlord if they sell to you rather than going to market.

Just be careful ref valuation. It might be worth getting 2-3 official valuations between you and the landlord and work from these. Other apartments that have sold in your building might have included car spaces, or have a more / less favourable aspect, be in better / worse condition etc.

SwimClub

Top floor/penthouse apartments have no-one making noise walking on the ceiling and are more secure to break ins so are more expensive.

Selling with a sitting tenant would be very unusual unless forced to do so.

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507233#Comment_120507233

Thanks, is it best to get a proper valuation done rather than an Estate agent? Also, do you know if the Propertypriceregister give the actual sale price?

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507346#Comment_120507346

Go for it! Look on propertyregister to find out what apartments in that block fetched recently.

Don't forget from what I see lots of apartments are coming up for sale in the present moment so landlord may find it more competition trying to sell so I think you should get small discount for saving him the hassle of waiting for you to move and advertising etc. It could work out well for both of you!

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507590#Comment_120507590

Thanks, yes hopefully the landlord sees it that way.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507636#Comment_120507636

Keep in mind the missing parking space if comparing to other apartments in the block sold with them.

You might consider getting an estate agent that sells in the area to do an evaluation of the place for you based on current market, tell them the story and they should be honest as they are only in it for the evaluation fee (make sure it isn't the LLs EA obviously), having some expected discount in writing from them for example for car parking space is more credible in negotiations.

There might be a parking space linked to the rental property but the landlord may have decided not to include it in the rental as a neighbour might have offered to rent it off him or he decided to use it himself. It would be worth enquiring about.

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120507660#Comment_120507660

Apparently you have enquire to the council for parking, or at least that is what I have since been told by the LL.

DownByTheGarden

I really dont see why a landlord would not wait til its empty and put it on the open market. I sold my apartment recently when the last tenants moved out. The one 2 doors down sold 2 his tenants about 3 months before I sold mine. Mine sold for over 40k more than his according to the PPR. Theres one for sale next door to his now. Asking price is about 20k less than mine sold for. That one is empty, so i'll be keeping an eye on that one out of curiosity.

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513765#Comment_120513765

The LL's initial idea was to sell it to the council with a sitting tenant. I think he is looking for a quick sale, and he knows he needs to give us 6mths notice before he can put it on the market and start taking viewings. If it goes to the open market and he is lucky to find a buyer quickly then it is likely to take another 5-6 months for the sale to go through I would imagine, so that would be likely 1 year at least before he sells it. And, with mortgage rates likely to be higher in 6mths time, he may not want to take the risk on the open market which is why of thinking of selling to the council.

Another property in the same block has just sold for the same price the LL is asking for this one, but that one had private secure parking.

I would be happy enough to pay a fair price for it depending on the valuation. I think if I was in the same position as him, I am not sure I would want to lose a potential buyer to potentially make a few thousand more especially if I was saving on estate fees and saving the time and hassle of arranging an estate agent.

Dav010

There is no doubt that the owner benefits from putting the property on the open market, even if he was receptive to selling it to you. Councils are in a much better position to buy than someone who needs to finance the purchase.

So, op, what you are paying for is to stop the LL advertising it and having to compete against owner occupiers/institutional investors, and from accepting an offer from a council who can close a sale much quicker than you. Plus, you must accept the challenges of finding a new rental property/property to buy in the notice timeframe.

Bearing all this in mind, a “fair offer”, or what you believe is a fair offer may not appeal to the owner, you have to make a more than fair offer to have a clear run at buying it. And you will only get one shot at it, if the owner thinks you are lowballing, he/she will just take the councils money.

In relation to your questions about sitting tenants, most mortgage providers require vacant possession, but a cash buyer/investor may be willing to buy with a sitting tenant. Car park spaces are typically owned by the MC and leased to the owners either as part of the purchase contract or on an annual basis, ask the OMC what the story is, but you are likely going to have to pay a yearly fee.

Regarding a valuation, best way of valuing a property is, putting it on the market. So while an EA can give you an opinion, there is a reason why properties sell above the guide price, a couple of buyers could get stuck in to the bidding for a top floor apartment in a nice development. So again, use the valuation as a guide, not a fixed price, and bid above it if you want to prevent the property going to the market.

Gael23

They can put it up for sale but any viewings need to be with your permission and agreement

doughef

Prices are stabilising, if not falling, in most parts of the country.

the recent interest hikes seem to have scared a lot of people off.

your LL will obviously want to get as much as they can- but given you have at least 6 months to vacate, you could pretty much be sure prices won’t go up.

Your LL could put it on the open market asap and they might get a shock as to what’s offered and you might actually get it for less??

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517831#Comment_120517831

Thanks for the reply and information.

"Plus, you must accept the challenges of finding a new rental property/property to buy in the notice timeframe."

This is my main reason that I am considering to buy it, the property is not ideal for us as it is too small for the family but I know finding another place to rent will be near impossible and finding a place to buy within the timeframe is unlikely too.

I am not sure if Councils are buying properties so easily though, I know a few people who have tried to sell the council and the council had no interest. I think this was initial idea, to sell to the council and then for us to continue to rent via the council but I am sure if that is how it works? Would we get to continue renting if he sold to the council?

Thanks for your info, much appreciated.

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520517#Comment_120520517

Yes, I fully agree with this. I know properties in the block have took a longer to sell in the last year then they did in early 2022. Interest rates are expected to increase for the next 3 months so mortgage rates are likely to be higher by the end of the year. And, recent mortgage hikes will not start really kick in until later in the year and next year. Inflation is still high so food prices are going to continue to rise too.

I think your right, properties are not going to be going up much if any this year or next year. I think the LL knows this which is one of the main reasons of him selling.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120520517#Comment_120520517

The last report had prices still rising and the falling spoken about was the increase rate had fallen but prices still going up.

We still aren't building enough properties for the population growth each year so supply is not meeting demand and getting worse. This is not 2007 with high prices and lots of supply. It is wishful thinking to say prices are dropping

redarmyblues

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522260#Comment_120522260

The Housing Agency not the councils buy dwellings under the cost rent scheme, there are income limits, maybe the tenants exceed this.

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522924#Comment_120522924

Thanks, I found that this only available to people NOT on HAP or eligible for social housing and are earning under 53k. Is there another scheme whereby the property is bought with sitting HAP tenants? The LL told me if we were on HAP he could sell to the council? He could not remember what the scheme was called but I have searched and I can not find anything where the council or the housing agency buys properties with tenants that are on HAP.

doughef

I’m probably being very Dublin centric here (so apologies to those not in Dublin) but where prices around the country may be rising at a very low rate, in Dublin prices are definitely slowing / stabilizing/ dropping and have done since the start of the year.

I’ve been looking around the last while and the vast amount of houses I’ve saved in my searches is either still available or has dropped price.

I sold an apt last year and it was a case of ‘put it on low and wait for a bidding war’

now it’s a case of put it on for x but be prepared to lower your asking price.

the difference in a year is incredible.

redarmyblues

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120523222#Comment_120523222

The councils were or were meant to be buying dwellings with Hap tenants but were in most cases reluctant to do so preferring that private individuals did their job for them, I am not sure if this has changed with the new procedures in place.

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524006#Comment_120524006

Yeah, it seems this is no longer possible, I know the housing agency don't buy properties with HAP tenants. I am not sure if the council buying them was a difference scheme to what the housing agency scheme.

Phil1969

Thanks for all the information from you guys. Buying the apartment from our landlord seems to be the safest option for us but I want to explore other options as the property is not ideal for us because it is too small and possibly out of our price range. 

I would appreciate it if anyone could answer or advise on the following?

1. We are also considering renting another property (if we can find one), my worry with this is that a new Landlord could terminate our lease with short notice. Am I right in thinking that a tenant only needs to give 28 days notice if we had only been living there less than 6mths? 

2. RE: Vacant Property Grant 

a. Can you live in the property once the grant has been applied for or does the work need to be done first before moving in? 

b. Do you need to pay for all the work first and then the grant is paid after the work is completed? Meaning, do you need the cash to do the work first? 

3. Do you think it is safer to buy an affordable apartment (that is too small) rather than renting a bigger home that gives little security with the risk of being evicted for whatever reason?  

Thanks in advance for any advice, it is much appreciated. 

DownByTheGarden

YEs they have to give you shorter notice but chances are if you are a decent tenant and they are already clearly wanting to rent the place that you will be ok 6 months down the line too.

Most grants ive ever heard of are paid after you spend the money. You can apply for them and get them approved but you only get the money once the work is done and inspections have been passed.

If it were me starting out again i would buy anything to get me out of the rent trap. And then worry about trading up etc later. My priority would be to get out of renting.

Phil1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527270#Comment_120527270

Thanks for the info and advice, yes I am leaning more towards buying a place that will do us for the next 3-5 years, and then look at upgrading. The main advantage of renting is not having a place to sell once we do find the right property but I think the disadvantages like paying rent and having less security makes buying a better choice.

Thanks again

SwimClub

Buying a temporary apartment that you will then have to sell means a lot of transaction costs and hassle buying in a chain in the future.

Apartment prices can also drop more than houses in a crash.

I'd consider emigrating as another option, or moving somewhere where you can afford a big enough property.