Waste service imposed on house owners

lucio7

I recently bought a new house in a new residential estate in south of Dublin, with both houses and apartments. As a house owner, I was initially delighted that the waste collection service is included in the management fee because it should be cheaper and I don’t have to bother with it. But unfortunately, I soon came to regret it.

I have my own reasons for dissatisfaction with this service and I tried to be a good neighbour and not complain about it. Instead I tried to hire a second service to complement the existing one. It came as a shock to see that every single competitor turned me down for some reason, although I know they operate in the area, quite a few of them. One of them suggested very politely that there is something in our estate that I should discuss with the management company, apparently some exclusivity contract that give this company monopoly in our estate. I tried to clarify this with the management company but all my questions were deflected. So my fears were confirmed that something suspicious is going on.

So my queries are:

• what is it that makes some estates have a collective agreement for waste and some others not?
• for those who have, why is it even legal to unilaterally suppress competition in the area?
• this is quite personal (as opposed to common areas) and every household has its own needs, why is it normal that no consent is requested from the house owners to involve them in this scheme against their will?
• can this be challenged by a solicitor?
• finally, has anybody been in a similar situation and managed to overturn it? How?

dashoonage

Dirty Business...waste management.

elperello

They probably don't want several different waste companies trucks entering your estate.

Del2005

It's not worth the other companies sending their trucks into an estate for a few collections and the emissions would make recycling a joke.

OP as an owner you can get the bin company changed at the next AGM, if you can get enough votes.

L1011

It won't be an exclusivity agreement - it may be an access issue if the development is gated. But as above, no bin company is going to bother serving an area with included waste collection for one customer who may not even have their bins out on a given day.

There is no way to force a private company to provide you service.

You are going to be a member of a management company - go to meetings and discuss the issues with the waste collector there.

Former Former Former

Had this exact scenario a few years ago. A certain bin company was advertising great deals so I phoned them up to avail. They said no, private estate, need mgmt company authorisation to enter.

When I pointed out that their truck was already entering the estate to service the childcare facility, they mumbled something about residential and commercial being different trucks.

As noted above, the reality is it isn't viable to send a truck for one house which may or may not have its bin out.

topal

The management company is run by your neighbors on behalf of you and your neighbors. As an owner you get a vote on how it is managed.

If you and a sufficient number of your neighbors have an issue with waste collection you can raise it at an EGM and vote to change it.

Personally living in an area with 3 different waste companies coming on 3 different days I would love a situation like yours..

3DataModem

I live in an estate just like this.

We all get a bin lift (black, brown, green) every single week... a collective arrangement that works out very cost effective and high-quality for everyone.

Of course there's one dingus in the estate who only needs a lift once every four weeks, so thinks we should all be allowed do our own waste arrangements. The only reason I show up at the AGM is to remind people that 6 bin lorries a week (different companies, different bins each day) completely sucks, and that we are getting relatively good value for money even with the managing agent overhead etc etc.

Scotty #

I wish my estate had a single collection company. Instead, we've Panda bins out on a Monday night, Oxygen on a Tuesday night, someone else on Thursday night, and a blue wheelie bin collection on Saturday afternoons.

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558889#Comment_120558889

I'm in the Dublin City Council area, and the bylaws designate a specific day for each area for bin collection.

All companies have to come that one day, and the only deviation allowed is for bank holidays (usually moved to the previous Saturday).

lucio7

We have 4 estates with 4 different bin companies. I'm pretty sure we are not saving the planet by denying a truck to cross the road to the other side. They can offer a discount for large groups to stimulate concentration, but not impose a dictatorship on people.

Leaving the environment aside, what do you do when a company abuses the customers? What exactly is the mechanism to prevent that? What prevents these companies from fixing the prices for instance? How is that normal in this country that a house owner can't change the provider in the same way we change for electricity, gas, broadband?

CCPC says in a report that this system is unique in the world. I just wonder why would that be? Is it because the privatisation of waste in Ireland has got out of hand maybe?

L1011

Nothing has changed in the past seven months and my post still stands. The last line is the one you need to pay attention to

"There is no way to force a private company to provide you service.

You are going to be a member of a management company - go to meetings and discuss the issues with the waste collector there."

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508251#Comment_121508251

Have you actually complained yet? Ring the company and make your point if reasonable, if they do not engage reasonably, then go to the management company. They are a service supplier and them doing a substandard job gives them a bit of negotiating power. As said above, turn up to meetings.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508279#Comment_121508279

The waste company don't need to even answer the phone to him that's absolutely pointless.

If he owns the house then he's therefore allowed to engage with management company and attend agms. If he's too lazy to do that then he can complain all he likes to zero avail

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508334#Comment_121508334

Its not pointless, once its something minor. The OP has given no clue. I rang mine with an issue and they answered and rectified. It was a slight oversight on their part and only for we were full to the brim I would have ignored it and muddled through to the next collection. If i was a neighbour and he mentioned a minor issue, my first bit of advice would be to ring them, and then, if not answered or rectified, then talk to the management crowd and point out that they are not up to standard. Quite likely the management company employs them at several sites and have power to sort it quick once you have exhausted the one reasonable avenue first.

lucio7

Quote from a CCPC report: "the household waste collection market exhibits characteristics of a natural monopoly". Why should we accept this "natural monopoly"? My point still stands, what is the mechanism that prevents a company from abusing its powers? Call them and speak politely? Is this how it works?

https://www.ccpc.ie/business/ccpc-report-recommends-introduction-of-economic-regulation-in-the-household-waste-collection-market/

Other countries came up with something better, it's called "regulation".

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508740#Comment_121508740

Changing regulations will not force a private firm to serve you.

Raise your issues with the management company that you are a part owner of

lucio7

I was in contact with the management company for the last 12 months, they are clearly hiding something.

Are you saying CCPC is wrong? Do I need to explain how regulation works?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509424#Comment_121509424

You are the management company (a shareholder thereof)

I'm saying that no regulation change will force a bin firm to serve a single customer in an estate that already has a provided bin service. This is exactly the same as it has been since you initially opened the thread.

You don't understand the CCPC report at all based on your posts here so no, I don't need you to try explain your misunderstanding

28064212

"Waste service imposed on house owners"

Question: Who is imposing this on the house owners?

Answer: The managment company

Question: Who makes up the management company?

Answer: The house owners

...

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509424#Comment_121509424

In my experience working with several managing agents, they have very little tolerance for someone raising a grievance in an argumentative way. Fairly or unfairly, those people generally get put on the long finger in the hope that they will get bored and go away. I'm not saying you're doing this but if your approach to your OMC or MA is as combative as your posting style here, you might find it very hard to get those people to engage constructively with you.

From what you said in your OP, it sounds like your neighbours have a non-exclusive collective agreement with one company which makes it uneconomic for others to service your estate. No-one is telling those companies that they can't, they've just decided not to bother. This isn't a monopoly or abuse, it's the market trying to be efficient. It's hard to see how you would sue anyone to stop this happening. On the other hand, maybe the problem are the waste companies colluding to act in a cartel. That would be illegal but you'd have a tough time proving it.

Have you offered to bring your bins to the road outside your estate so the other waste companies can provide you a service without having to enter the estate?

Furze99

We live rural and only have a choice of one company and one type of service. This was decided as I understand it by the county council, who carved up territory and decided who should do which.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509424#Comment_121509424

Wouldn't that mean you are hiding something, being that you run the management company as a shareholder

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509583#Comment_121509583

In my experience of being an OMC Directors, complaints like the op’s are often borne out of non attendance at AGMs. A significant amount of time is spent answering correspondence from unit owners who don’t turn up at AGMs, yet are very annoyed about decisions made by those who did.

The fact is that a private company will only engage in a route where there are enough customers to make it profitable, so the op is not going to compel a refuse company to pick up his/her bins against their wishes, regardless of what the CCPC says.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509584#Comment_121509584

I live city centre and similar: bins are not possible here (heritage building, no ground level outdoor space) so the council have decided on the one bag service provider.

Or I could drive our ( tiny!) amount of waste to another company facility.