Media silence over Niall Collins story

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543018#Comment_120543018

No idea what you’re talking about.

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543015#Comment_120543015

No they do not. They say:

• "It is a criminal offence, punishable by up to two years’ imprisonment, for a councillor to vote on a matter where his spouse has a material interest."
• "Under section 177 of the Local Government Act 2001, when councillors have “actual knowledge that… a connected person (spouse) has a pecuniary or other beneficial interest in, or which is material to, the matter", they are prohibited from voting and must declare the conflict of interest to the local authority. Failure to do so is an indictable criminal offence under section 181 of the act."

They don't explicitly claim that "Niall Collins committed a criminal offence, punishable by up to two years' imprisonment..." That's left up to the reader's imagination.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543335#Comment_120543335

Nope. They keep injecting the term spouse into it. Very clear to anyone they are making the argument he broke the law. Very absurd to claim they are not.

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543289#Comment_120543289

This ain’t personal(against you me or Niall Collins even) it’s a more general point. A bit of earnest Q&A in the Dail might do us all some good and protect democracy and show there isn’t anything of real note to hide.

there will always be some grandstanding etc but most opposition politicians will behave to some extent.

FYI I’ve had plenty of things said about me online and in blogs but I’ve no fear of a politician abusing any of that under Dail privilege

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543302#Comment_120543302

Your FoI points are all reasonable but I wasn’t really taking about the specifics of this case. More a more general point that it wouldn’t hurt if the Collins’ of this world were a bit more openly transparent including in the Dail and that it’s very unlikely opposition politicians would start asking them to answer to spurious claims including rape or incest !

bokale

Has the site been developed or are they trying to sell with it just planning permission for the 5 houses back to the council?

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543335#Comment_120543335

They also said:

"Only a court can decide if Niall Collins committed an offence under the act. The matter would first have to be investigated by An Garda Síochána and a prosecution could only happen with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions"

They also never stated that Collins voted to sell the land to his wife. The actual statement was:

"Niall Collins voted to sell public land bought by wife who’s now negotiating sale of social housing on site".

Some might call this unethical journalism but without this and people getting wound up over what they THINK was stated, we probably wouldn't have had a useful discussion here about whether he broke the law or not.

Anyhow the Ditch's MO seems to be to use FOIable and publicly available information (land registry etc.) and combine it with their (and their readers') knowledge of Irish culture and slippery cute hoorism - while avoiding defaming anyone in the process. Also, they are almost certainly being fed information by insiders. They focus on property and planning due to the amount of skulduggery associated with it and it being regarded as one of the best ways to build wealth in Ireland.

In general, the further you go from central government/the civil service and the more local and autonomous a public body, the dodgier things get. Health boards/HSE and local authorities were rotten with corruption, nepotism and incompetence in the past and even though things have improved, this culture still exists. Every LA in the country will have skeletons in the closet and many TDs started their political careers as councillors.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120542606#Comment_120542606

Thats a bit daft. He is a councillor. He took part in other items on the agenda.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543540#Comment_120543540

You don’t think they are misrepresenting what actually happened and being more than disingenuous with their description when they wrote that line:

“Niall Collins voted to sell public land bought by wife who’s now negotiating sale of social housing on site" ?

Collins said there was no vote, only a discussion, and the Ditch conveniently omitted the fact that the committee at which the Ditch alleged he voted to sell, has absolutely no power of disposal of council property. They also omitted from that line that his wife was one of many people who submitted letters of interest prior to that meeting, and that only the Council proper, of which Collins was not a member at the time it was sold, had the power to decide on the sale. The line also omits the fact that there were many bidders when the property was placed on the open market, it was sold to the highest.

Anyway, either the Ditch didn’t use FOI when they should have before publishing, or they did have the information and didn’t bother to publish it because it didn’t fit with their narrative and would have made it a non story. Which do you think is the more plausible?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543629#Comment_120543629

It wouldn't exactly shock me if The Ditch simply don't understand local government and are simply mistaken in the statement that he voted to sell land.

They are otherwise fairly careful to strongly imply criminality without directly saying it. But their motive and intention to imply it is clear.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529515#Comment_120529515

Eh no, silence is taken as support, it is only if someone objects to a proposal, that the numbers for, against or abstaining are counted.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529531#Comment_120529531

It is clear you have never been at a meeting such as that one. Standard practice to deem it accepted after proposal and seconder as many posters have already explained to you.

JP Liz V1

Collins should not only have recused himself from the Limerick County Council local area meeting which decided to recommend the sale of the land concerned, but he should have also declared to the meeting that his wife had expressed an interest in its purchase

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/editorial-refusal-of-niall-collins-to-answer-questions-is-a-dark-day-for-democracy/a1342569568.html

Again if Collins did nothing wrong why not clear it up by answering questions

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548482#Comment_120548482

If every politician spent all day explaining everything they did that wasn’t wrong to an audience of misinformed activist cranks the government would function rather poorly.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548482#Comment_120548482

Kangaroo courts in the Dail are not the way to address issues. There are processes through SIPO, the gardai etc.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550945#Comment_120550945

But why one rule for one politician not others, if Collins was a member of the opposition you can bet FFG would be leading the charge for questions to be answered

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551725#Comment_120551725

Good point. Sinn Fein should set an example and answer questions about their finances. It would go a long way to winning over voters who have doubts/fears about them.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551725#Comment_120551725

That's politics... its gonna blow your mind.

VinLieger

An interesting thread on Paddy Cosgraves motives, links to Russia and his spread of Russian propaganda. Near the end of the thread it touches on the ditch as well as the Niall Collins nonsense.

https://twitter.com/Justinhead1982/status/1654285586960732160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1654285586960732160%7Ctwgr%5E89e7f7bb753456eda78958009000f40265851199%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fdiscussion%2F2058195983%2Frussia-threadbanned-users-in-op%2Fp2990

Hotblack Desiato

Great thread thanks, and it links to one on Chay Bowes too which has a priceless comment describing Paddy as "Tech Gemma" how apt 😂🤣

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557743#Comment_120557743

Pretty weak stuff tbh. All it shows is that Paddy loves spouting "hot" takes on stuff he knows little about - what's new?

lizzyjane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557743#Comment_120557743

Just wondering what that has to do with the Niall Collins story?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561051#Comment_120561051

I don’t don’t want to make you look stupid, but read the linked thread, it mentions the Niall Collins story directly, and Michael Martin also referenced Paddy Cosgrove in relation to The Ditch (Paddy Cosgrove major investor) and Niall Collins.

Sorry, the wobble didn’t have its desired affect, so just plain old “it’s right there in your screen” will have to do.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/05/04/tanaiste-stands-behind-dail-comments-about-ditch-website-and-web-summit-founder/

lizzyjane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561073#Comment_120561073

They are trying to discredit Cosgraves and The Ditches story by linking him to Russia as if he was best friends with Putin himself. Its nonsense. All that matter was whether the story the Ditch broke was factually correct and it was.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561137#Comment_120561137

Though you may not agree with the intimation, which facts are you disputing in the Twitter thread?

In relation to the correctness of the Ditches story, Niall Collin’s version disputes the account given by the Ditch, and the information gathered by him under FOI from the Council certainly casts doubt on some of the Ditches allegations and insinuations, this has be discussed and links provided over the last few pages.

Certainly a media publisher would be factually correct if they said “ whether lizzyjane is guilty of a criminal offence is up to the Gardai to investigate and a Court to decide”, printing that may lead any rational person who may think you have done wrong to think the Gardai will investigate and you may be convicted, when in fact you have done nothing wrong. Niall Collins said there was no vote, his wife was one of many to express interest, they had no pecuniary interest, the committee he attended had absolutely no power of disposal of property, he wasn’t a councillor when the CoCo did sell the property on the open market, there were other bidders, and it was sold to the highest bidder. All of that information is available apparently under FOI, so either the Ditch didn’t bother getting it, or they did get it and didn’t bother printing it because it would not fit in with the narrative of their piece.

If it is eventually found that Cosgrove is influencing what the Ditch publishes because he pays them, then they lose all credibility. High stakes indeed, and not just for Niall Collins now.

Sono Topolino

It’s very thin and could be explained just as easily as Cosgrave’s usual ill-informed and egotistical ramblings and desire to stick his nose in stuff he doesn’t understand. I doubt Russia could offer him anything other than notoriety, and he has that in spades. I lost all respect for him in March/April 2020.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560425#Comment_120560425

Everything, he bankrolls the Gutter Ditch ffs

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561137#Comment_120561137

It was not factually correct, they very strongly implied Collins broke the law but he did not.

Larbre34

Nobody has been able to clearly and satisfactorily answer a question I've been asking for a while. Several questions actually.

Is The Ditch answerable to the Press Council?

If not, why not?

If not, then to whom are they answerable for their activity?

If no one, then what are they, a media journal or a political entity / lobby?

If the latter, to whom are they answerable in that space?

If this sequence of questions cannot be answerable conclusively, then we need a public interrogation of the grey area between media, lobby and politics, to define standards, transparency and accountability.

Simply stating anything that you like about anyone, just to attempt to destroy a career or the wider political / business / community affiliation that they have, by baseless accusation or insinuation, cannot stand in a democratic Republic of common law.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562097#Comment_120562097

Ontheditch.com is an online publication member of the press council. Think that answers all your questions.

https://www.presscouncil.ie/press-council-of-ireland/member-publications/web-based-publications