Damage to property by tenant - apply for dispute resolution with RTB

Molly1961

Hi All,

Tenant of 11 years rented our cottage, we lowered rent to below HAP limit at start of tenancy and was never increased. HAP fully paid his rent for 11 years. He paid a 400 euro deposit at the start. We had an estate agent to "take care" of it. Cottage is within 100m of our family home. He started to overhold, but miraculously found a property within 2 days after finding out we instructed the agent to apply for a determination order with RTB. This application was then cancelled by the agent.

The estate agent came out for a final inspection and I pointed out the issues, which cannot be contributed to normal wear & tear. We totally understand that we will have to spend money on painting and decorating. He was told to remove all his personal belongings and clean the house. His sister came and cleaned 2 days straight (which had very little impact on the kitchen and bathroom).

Tenant very insistent that my husband pay him back the 400 euro in cash on the Friday he left (before the inspection the following Tuesday) as he handed back the keys and they read the electricity meter together. Claiming the agent promised it on an email, but could then not prove it. My husband said that an inspection was still to be made and made no promise to return his deposit. We invited him to attend the inspection, but he declined.

I attended the inspection with the agent the following Tuesday and pointed out the issues. He didn't take away his dishwasher and had not asked us permission to leave it. Turns out the dishwasher is broken. Chunks of plaster are off the wall around the fireplace. Left us with buckets full of broken briquettes and briquette dust piled next to the fireplace in a broken plastic box. A big chunk of tile missing around raised base of fireplace (we are unable to source a replacement tile). Due to not ventilating the rooms, there is mould around the window reveals. It was explained to him at the start of the tenancy of the importance of manual ventilation, i.e. opening windows as due to the almost 2 foot thick walls we are unable to drill through the walls to fit vents. He agreed to this. Curtains have not been washed for 11 years and were covered in mildew. Extreme stains in WC, urine stained grout. Timber on velux window starting to rot, due to not opening/wiping/cleaning. The seal around the fridge is covered in black mould. Enormous stain on carpet in his bedroom. The extractor fan is so beyond repair as he must have a) never used it or b) never changed the filter in it. Bathroom seals around the shower tray are black from mould. Mould on kitchen cabinets. I'll stop here.

We acknowledge that we have at our own cost have to buy new mattresses, replace the carpets, deep clean the kitchen and paint the interior. We don't have an issue with that. However, we have to spend money on getting window reveals and fireplace surround (it is inset) plastered. We have in the meantime gutted the bathroom, as the mouldy seals on the tray were behind panels and we could not face keeping the WC and stained grout. Again, we are paying for that.

My question is, what are the chances with the RTB in favour of us claiming damages from the tenant to the house?

Many thanks for reading and staying with me 🙃

My original comment/story on the eviction ban: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120410337#Comment_120410337

DownByTheGarden

Just thank your lucky stars they moved out. You will get very little satisfaction from the RTB, but do try anyway and let people know what you think of the RTB.

Dont give him back his deposit anyway. If he asks for it again give him the number of the RTB.

The very least you'll need that for is a skip to dump his rubbish that he left and his dishwasher and to pay someone to remove it. Imagine not washing curtains for 11 years :) And not giving the tiles he was p!ssing on a clean every now and again.

Some people are just dirty and iots sad that that caould ever been seen as normal wear and tear, but filthy people dont see filthy things.

All these things 99% of normal people would clean in their own homes.

TheChizler

That doesn't sound like particularly unusual wear and tear for 11 years in any property, apart from the plaster and maybe the tile (depends how bad, any old tile gets chipped through normal use). Even the plaster could be from settlement around the fireplace unless you're suggesting it was damaged through misuse? Did you do any inspections over the years?

MacDanger

Did you raise these issues during your periodic inspections of the property? If not, I'd say that may count against you. Also, you'll need to say what specifically you're keeping the deposit for and have receipts for what you've spent the money on.

themoone

Also Take pictures or better still video of before and after. We do that although usually, the RTB will try to make it out as normal wear and tear even with evidence. Of course, they will try to say you were responsible to carry out periodic inspections and that you should have brought these issues to his attention (as LL are tenants keepers and should nag them to clean like their mommies!!).

Contact him to ask that he remove his dishwasher and give him 7 days to do so as if you put in a skip he may claim you disposed of it and ask for the price of a new one. You would not believe the amount of bs that is entertained by the RTB.

ted1

Doesn’t sound to out if the ordinary for 11 years.

unless you have a receipt you can’t hold back the deposit

The white goods / mattress etc are depreciated over 8 years so have no residue value. So just replace them and reduce you’re tax bill.

buy a cheap mattress , encourage the next tenant to buy their own.

get the carpet cleaned/ shampooed or replaced. It’s old enough.

Increase the rent for tue next tenant. You had no reason to be charging less than HAP. You were only saving the council money.

you are a business owner. Not a charity. Increase the rent 2% each year.

if it’s a HAP tenant 200 euro over hap limit is a fair prices

a good steam and regrout would have been the best way to deal with the kitchen

Molly1961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514229#Comment_120514229

The plaster was damaged through misuse, by stacking logs of timber next to it, definitely not settlement. The agent did inspections but sneakily only photographed what they felt was needed to be put on the inspection report. When we finally decided a few months ago to increase the rent they told us not to do it, because tenants usually submit a long lists of wants. They tell tenants, don't complain about anything because the landlord will increase the rent. Some before and after photos. We repainted the entire house prior to tenant moving in (top left image)

Molly1961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514497#Comment_120514497

As I mentioned in my post, I don't have any issues replacing mattresses, carpets, etc. we installed new washing machine and dryer during the tenancy. I don't have any issue with that. I have an issue with excessive wear & tear, grease everywhere and damage.

Molly1961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514497#Comment_120514497

As I mentioned to another reply to my post. No issue whatsoever with replacing carpets, mattresses, redecorating, etc. It is excessive wear & tear and damage I am dealing with. The question I was asking whether anyone has had dealings with RTB in a similar situation and the outcome(s).

Molly1961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514393#Comment_120514393

Thank you for the solution for getting rid of the dishwasher. I have received a quote for this and will give this to the tenant informing him to collect the dishwasher within 7 days. Re BS by the RTB, I think it should be called Residential Tenants Board, not much help it appears for landlords.

We were clearly very naive, as only one inspection was carried out last year upon which I decided that the tenant had to go. Sadly the agent marked for dampness/mould as not present, and the photograph in the bathroom was taken at such an angle that it didn't show.The issues certainly did not appear overnight. If the tenant had alerted us to it, we could have remedied the problem before it got to this stage.

DFB-D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514850#Comment_120514850

You may or may not get a judgement but enforcement could be a factor.

Probably not with the hassle.

Flinty997

Never lost a dispute when retaining a deposit.

But in your case the time, effort and stress for 400 isn't worth it. I think it's trivial amount to waste your time with. You got 11 easy years. This must be 0.01% of the rent paid on that time.

Know a good thing when you see it.

ted1

It’s not going to cost much to get the wall reskimmed. Probably less than €200, could have possible being caused by the heat from the stove. You can deduct it from your tax liability.

Molly1961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514928#Comment_120514928

I agree to a certain point, but it appears I am a dog with a bone. I love spreadsheets and have been able to calculate that with rental income from HAP, offset of expenses (LPT, Insurance, etc.), income tax our net income was Euro 68 per month. So that Euro 400 is equivalent to almost 6 months of net rental income. It will go towards buying paint. I am self-employed and found extreme pleasure in outlining all the issues with before and after photos in a long email, which I will fire off this evening. The energy it takes me to do this will no doubt take more energy for him reading and having to respond to it than it did for me. Also, it would be the first time he would ever have to pay for anything relating to rental cost (not living costs). I think my original question was really to find out experiences of others in a similar situation with the RTB.

Flinty997

Sounds like your not treating it or seeing it as a business but a hobby, and taking it personally. As such if it makes sense financially or not is irrelevant.

I'd guess there's a 50:50 chance the RTB will look at as reasonable wear and year for the length of tenancy considering the lack of attention by the LL. Because it's very trivial all things considered.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120516256#Comment_120516256

You can't use the deposit to pay for paint when repainting is a standard part of dealing with wear and tear.

Molly1961

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514901#Comment_120514901

Sofar we haven't refunded the 400 Euro deposit, and that is likely we all going to get from it anyway.

ted1

What receipts have you to keep the €400 against? You are going to get yourself in trouble

you should have spent less time on spreadsheets and more time on rent increase.

€68 a month, are you excluding the 11 years of mortgage that has been paid leaving you with an asset?

have you got a quote from a handyman to reskim the small section of fireplace.

Flinty997

The RTB won't be interested in Net income that's for sure.

thomas 123

Sounds like you are coming up with any excuse to hold onto the 400 euro.

Some people are not as clean as others, as gross as it sounds nothing you have said would indicate to me that your tenant, who paid you for many years, acted maliciously against your property.

The chipped plaster and tile is absolutely wear and tear especially considering the age and condition of the property you own.

Id argue you could be the one at fault for not having the house deep cleaned yearly or something considering the state of it. The reality is those houses used to have holes in them or thatched roofs or a door that was left open always - they are not fit for modern living. Given the extent of what you are reporting in regards to mildew and mold it sounds like a place that would need a dehumidifier running 24/7. The velux wood rotting is a pretty good indicator of that to me - what did you expect the tenant to do, mop it up every morning?

At any stage did you clean and paint that entire property during the 11 year tenancy?

I wont go on -

Is 400 quid even worth your time to argue over?

delboythedub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514218#Comment_120514218

Send him an invoice for the Clean up

reddevilfan

Hi Molly

I'm a former Tennant who had a great Landlord whom I still talk to and do DIY jobs for at my old address. I hate the PRTB for this reason.

I recommend a girl ( call her Ruby ) to move in to upstairs flat. She was their a year or so and went missing for weeks as she was sleeping with a man in Rathmines who hid his ex in the wardrobe and jumped out window.

If you Google this you will understand why Ruby went missing for weeks. In the mean time my Landlord left messages and hand written notes in the door etc etc and stop receiving rent during this app 2 month period.

Eventually he gave up waiting went in to the flat.... it was Filthy how Ruby could live there was a ruddle in itself because Kim and aggie would of struggled to clean it ( I spent a week cleaning it )

The landlord takes all Ruby's belongings and puts them in storage facility paying for this also.

So Ruby shows up after 3 months gone and collects a desk and chest of drawers from flat. She hands the landlord rent for 2 months that DSW paid to her bank but its not 2 full months rent he receives as her contribution is missing.

He drives her to storage facilty and pays for the 3 weeks of storage out of his money for her and drops her to place she chooses 30 mind away.

A few weeks later the PRTB send the Landlord a letter and she takes a case against him for eviction of her.

Now because he took the 8 weeks payment that DSP paid to her bank for him she won a wrongful eviction and was awarded 5000 for emotional damages and cost etc

So loss of rent

Loss of storage fees

Having to pay for cleaning and painting of room

And 5000 down

Now if the PRTB were fair in their JUDGEMENT then I'd say keep.the money...

So don't cause 400 will end up costing you 4000 cause they are all for tenants because they get their money from the rich..... I mean if the Landlord wins what's a Tennant gonna pay and you have to find their new address otherwise these bills can't be sent to them

But they can find your house so your a better and richer cash cow for them

Just give them it back its 11 years you got rent

They could say 400 11 years ago is worth 500 today lol

Oh and the girls name what are Ruby types of what

She had affair with a 👾 and was present whilst a woman in a wardrobe

Rested in Pain

Ruby was lucky to have a sister in store St Garda and never faced criminal charges

Very lucky woman

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521918#Comment_120521918

If they did the work themselves, they can’t

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522024#Comment_120522024

Lucky in lots of ways.

Ray Palmer

OP you failed to get proper inspections done in 11 years and the pictures just show wear and tear. Tenants will not air a place out proper and the only way to monitor that is to do proper inspections. You are responsible for the maintenance of the property not the tenants. Your whole calculation of the property rent was wrong from the start. You left the rent at a point it didn't cover the costs when you could have gotten more to deal with maintenance and repair.

Give back the €400 as it was your mistake not the tenants. Never trust an agency to inspect the property

3DataModem

11 years? Give the tenant the deposit FFS.

To be honest, you should have been doing inspections. All of the above could have been raised in that time.

delboythedub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522415#Comment_120522415

Had one who bypassed the ESB meter and no rent for 2 years and RTB backed him to the hilt Entered apartment to carry out necessary repairs and photograph meter for attention of ESB and the tenent took off like a light. Nice asian couple there now

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526846#Comment_120526846

That's the business. The Govt want the LL to carry the risk and cost of such tenants. Rather than the Govt having to pay it.