Teaching about Gender

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640184#Comment_120640184

Well, the State obviously. The state does not promote a religion or set course content for religion in the classroom - the patrons of the individual school do. Pretty obvious, I would have thought....?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640563#Comment_120640563

None of the above - I don't need to in order to have an opinion. I did used to work with kids as a teaching assistant and I have been a step-parent, but I'm not that that makes any difference. So we can nip this little cop-out in the bud early.

Same with parents being the fundamental educators: that doesn't absolve them of actually educating. if they opt out, they have to make alternative arrangments or teach the kids themselves (generally speaking) - the State still has overview and still decides what the kids are taught. And if the State puts this on the curriculum, then the parents have to make sure the kids get the information. Same with any other subject.

Now back to the question you're avoiding: do you think that the State will promote transgender to children and that the course content will include information about puberty blockers and surgery, yes or no?

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640322#Comment_120640322

I'm already employed by the department and I'm not inquisitve I'm looking for consistency in an ideological viewpoint that lacks any. What exactly would you add to the sex ed program and what science would you be basing it on? The fact is you couldnt answer half those questions yourself because you dont know the answers.

We have been teaching children that gender stereotyps are no longer relevant for years in school Ireland today is million miles away from Ireland 20 years ago children no matter their sex can play any sports apply for any jobs and be and act how they wish within the constraints of a civilised society. Mary does not need to come out as non binary because she likes Pearl Jam and hates dresses. Gender ideology reinforces stereotypoes it doesnt break them down.

Some people may feel they were born in the wrong body? Are they not born in the worng body so? is it just a feeling?

As a matter of interest have you children of your own in primary school?

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640851#Comment_120640851

Parents are the primary educators of the child this is enshrined in our constitution. My children will be 100% opting out of anything related to gender ideology, it has no basis in science and is an ideolgical viewpoint there is no mandate on the state from the parents of Ireland to teach about gender ideology. Trans activist groups like TENI and Belong to are responsible for lobbying for its inclusion on the curriculum.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641220#Comment_120641220

So tell me, as primary educator, what arrangements are you going to make to educate your children? Or are you going to leave them to find out on their own behind your back in the assumption that your own enforced ideaology will suffice?

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641271#Comment_120641271

Explain to me what my own enforced ideology is? Your ideology has no scientific basis. It has no long term studies where children have been affirmed socially medically and surgically.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641346#Comment_120641346

The ideaology that transpeople don't (or shouldn't) have freedom to exist and are immoral and that teenagers should not have rights to information.

Same as homophobia 20-odd years ago.

My 'ideaology' is that education is power and if they can't handle learning that people are different, they're notvready for a state exam.

How are they going to.form an opinion without am education?

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641404#Comment_120641404

I believe that trans people exist. Gender dysphoria is a medical diagnosis, people with gender dysphoria have to meet certain criteria to have a medical diagnosis.

Unfortunately what has happened is anyone can now self identify as trans and self diagnose themselves surely you can see the problem with that in terms of people suffering with mental health comorbidites having a genuine belief that being born in the wrong body is the reason they are so unhappy without exploring the other issues.

As an adult I think if you suffer from gender dysphoria and are trans you should be free to live your life as you please like all of us are, my issue is with the indoctrination of an entire generation of children that there is a scientific basis for gender ideology and the advertisement that transitioning will solve their problems when no scientific studies say that. We are not protecting our children.

I have children. I teach children.

Conversion therapy is now being described as psychotherapy for children who say thay are trans. Regardless of their mental health comorbidites. Imagine talk therapy with a young child to discover if there are other issues at play is now called conversion therapy. We know from the tavistock data that children with ASD and children who are victims of sexual abuse are more likely to come out as trans. Imagine affirming this belief in these children after a consult of a couple of hours by tavistock staff who are either pushing this ideology or pressured into affirming these children. Basic child safeguarding says the adults in the room have to protect children from harmful things and gender ideology is harmful, it's far more harmful to vulnerable children.

Education also in your reply suggests settled science. None of this is settled science. They are no long term studies in relation to children that are being affirmed. Again we have gone from 40 to 1800 referrals for girls to tavistock in a decade. We have 0 long term follow up studies in fact tavistock have 0 studies other than proving that those who receive puberty blockers early 98% go on to cross sex hormones that is medicalisation for life for the 98% when up to 90% of those in previous studies who went through puberty reverted to their natal sex.

But I suppose what the hell would I know I'm just a big transphobe.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641662#Comment_120641662

Well its understandable and reasonable why people would consider you transphobic with all your disturbingly negative viewpoints of trans people.

Even just in this post that can clearly be seen

Suggesting that being trans is all about "suffering"

Suggesting lots of people came out as trans but are not really trans just because their mental ill health was never discussed

Suggesting that people only come out as trans because they have been sexually abused or are autistic

Suggesting that being trans isn't real but that people are "indoctrinated" into being trans

The idea that people are "born in the wrong body" is also deeply transphobic. Its labelling peoples bodies as "wrong" and encouraging mental ill health

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641662#Comment_120641662

I was going to list a few examples of transphobia in your posts, but i see I've been beaten to it, so I'll.just add the following posts and point out the bias and ignorance in each one (which is frankly dangerous if this truly is your job):

What is a child's reference point for definitely being trans? Is it that a girl likes playing soccer or a boy likes dolls?

Incredibly ignorant: seriously not knowing the difference between something you are and something you do.

At this point youn don't nt even know what gender is.

Explain how brain washing an entire generation of children form the age of 5 into believing men can actually become biological women

Bias: just because you don't like it, it's 'brainwashing' - it's not even on the syllabus how could it be anything to an entire generation of kids who are barely able to read?

Ignorance: men factually can't become biological women.

On top.of not knowing what gender is, now you don't know what transitioning changes...

If you tell small children that boys and girls can be born in the wrong body then because they lack the critical thinking of adults they will believe you

Ignorance: lots of kids already know this and understand it. And even if you were right, it just proves the need for education

 looking for consistency in an ideological viewpoint that lacks any

Baseless accusation

My children will be 100% opting out of anything related to gender ideology,

Bias: they will, or you will on their behalf? Do they get a say? And are you in danger of passing your phobia on to them?

How about finding out what think instead of dictating to then what to think.

They are not you!!

it has no basis in science and is an ideolgical 

Ignorance: Science is responsible for the medication and surgeries that transition entails - how could this be possible if it had "no basis'.

(Also contradicts your first paragraph: I believe that trans people exist. Gender dysphoria is a medical diagnosis, people with gender dysphoria have to meet certain criteria to have a medical diagnosis.

Odd belief in something you believe has "no basis in science".

There is no way in hell that all that came from rational unbiased thinking and balanced research on the subject.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

@briangriffin - just to balance this out: if there was some kind of pro-trans agenda being pushed on kids via education, I'd be with you 100% - but I'm basing this on the idea that it'll be balanced information and respect rather than conspiracy and detailed information about how to do it and where to got the hormones.

If a kid did present as trans (or was considering it) first port of call for the parents should be the family GP - not a classroom

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640851#Comment_120640851

So you are not a parent? No side stepping the issue I'm afraid - are you familiar with Article 42 of the constitution and related parts??

"The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children."

Can't be clearer than that. Parents make decisions with their children in their best interests and parents/ families should be the arbiters of whether the materials you want should be brought into the classroom. There's nothing to stop parents dealing with these matters in the privacy of their own homes.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640739#Comment_120640739

I have done no such thing - I have suggested that parents should be widely consulted and let them decide by majority if they wish to see such material in the school classroom. Parents & families should deal with such matters in their own context - no need at all to bring it into a school curriculum.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642700#Comment_120642700

As i said to Brian, that doesn't mean you can opt out of everything you see fit and just not educate them - you still have to operate in the same framework and you still you still have to make sure kids get lessons. And if that means social education, so be it. Would you rather they grew up ignorant or getting their information from an unvetted source you had no control over?

Also - Martina Burke is a parent - and two of her kids wound up in jail and a thrid destroyed her career.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642895#Comment_120642895

I opted-out of religion classes and activities as well as Irish in Primary/secondary school. The latter because we lived abroad for 3 years when I was 9, the former because my mother was adamant that Catholic ideology wouldn't be pushed on me so that I would be free to make an informed choice on faith (if any) later in life.

During those classes I went to the library or got a start on homework. There's no need to remove a child entirely/home school as you seem to be suggesting. They just don't partake in that class.

This is no different.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643737#Comment_120643737

Well no - because religion is not a part of the curriculum and the State does make it mandatory. Irish is, but you got an exemption: that's not avialable to everyone. During one of the "should Irish be optional" debate threads, it emerged that you still have to study Irish - even if you're homeschooled - until the Leaving Cert, if you don't meet the criteria for an exemption (and it isn't easy).

So whlie the family is primary educator, it works within the framework set by the State. Which, I know, sounds like a contradiction (and is) but that's something you's need to take up with whoever wrote the Constitution.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643914#Comment_120643914

IM not sure your entirely right about religion. At second level they can opt out.

Religious education can be studied for the JC. You don't have to believe. World religions etc

Bobtheman

Deleted

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643943#Comment_120643943

Well, the poster specifcially stated his mother didn't want a "catholic ideoalogy" pushed on him, so I'm assuming it was a non-secular course on the table. It can be studied, yes, but there's no law or article stating that a child must study religion at any age.

Bobtheman

From a medical perspective, the appropriate determinant of sex is gender identity.” Adkins is a professor at Duke University School of Medicine and the director of the Duke Center for Child and Adolescent Gender Care (which opened in 2015).

Adkins argues that gender identity is not only the preferred basis for determining sex, but “the only medically supported determinant of sex.” Every other method is bad science, she claims: “It is counter to medical science to use chromosomes, hormones, internal reproductive organs, external genitalia, or secondary sex characteristics to override gender identity for purposes of classifying someone as male or female.”

This is trans ideology. Science is being thrown out the window.

It's an over reaction to homophobia and racism. Basically liberals are thus rolling over and accepting this?

Bobtheman

The above was expert testimony.

This below is how it's taught to kids

The ginger bread mab

There’s “gender identity,” which is “how you, in your head, define your gender, based on how much you align (or don’t align) with what you understand to be the options for gender.” The graphic lists “4 (of infinite)” possibilities for gender identity: “woman-ness,” “man-ness,” “two-spirit,” or “genderqueer.”

So I'm your head now qualifies as science. We slay the church and it's metaphysics only for this new metaphysical beast to rise up!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643985#Comment_120643985

Again - what makes you think either is going to be the path chosen by the State?

Adkins seems to think careful consideration before transition is important for teenagers (which I would agree with) but that it shouldn't be banned and information should be available.

One of the nation's leading medical experts on transgender teens says the bill could increase their risk of domestic violence or death.

"They're trying to promote fear into people that we are providing therapies that are injuring people, when, in actuality, it's life-saving treatment," Adkins said. "It's huge."

https://www.wral.com/story/top-transgender-doctor-warns-teen-treatment-ban-could-be-deadly/19618762/

So not sure what you're trying to say here...?

But again: we're talking about education and awarenes, not transitioning - so why this is relevant, I don't know...?

Bobtheman

You miss the point entirely.

It's a not proven scientifically at all.

He is a leading advocate and if you can't see the inherant contradictions in this movement then you are beyond hope.

It should be nowhere near kids

Bobtheman

Without what is a psychological science being proven totally it ain't no kid should be near this.

What other psychlogical treatment makes you sterile??

If you had any real familiarity with teenagers you must know they look for psylogical harbours. They are very volatile

It's a psychological issue and it's relatively new science.

I doubt you'd allow your own kid to make himself or herself sterile

Bobtheman

Should we have made kids aware of repressed memory syndrome which has been proved to be bullshit

At one stage homosexuality was considered a psychlogical disorder should that have been taught to kids in the 1960s??

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644367#Comment_120644367

Deanna Wilson Atkins (if that's who we're talking about) is actually a "she".

Beyond that, you're not making a point very well - are you talking about this Gingerbread group? If so, what's her connection with them? And what's their connection with the State educating about transgender issues? And before I even get to grips with that you're talking about steilisation of teenagers, then repressed memory syndrome, and teaching homosexuality to kids in the 1960s?

Are you saying that we shouldn't teach abouttrans now for the same resaon we didn;t teach about homosexuality in the 60s? Are we that hung-up?

Seroiusly - what the f are you on about??

You're all over the place her, and frankly, I'm confused. And I think I'm out at this point. There may have been a valid point in here -but it's impossible to say.

PaoloGotti

It’s absolutely ridiculous in my opinion that transgenderism is being taught to young children in school. It’s so bloody obvious to me that impressionable, uncertain, rebellious etc children will become “trans” as a result. Mate of mine’s daughter has decided she is a boy all of a sudden. Yeah…sure you are…

Subzero3

The left movement will migrate on to the next thing in a few years. It should be up to each individual school what they wish to teach. Parents can decide of they want a normal traditional school or a school which teaches what the LGBTQ believe.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642895#Comment_120642895

Who says so? Just because you think primary school children / early teens should be 'educated' as you see it about matters concerning gender doesn't equate to any reality for parents. They can choose to or not or frame an answer in any way they choose. The vast majority of parents have the best interests of their individual children at heart and do what's best for them. Religious instruction should be removed out of schools and left likewise to parents and parish.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644443#Comment_120644443

I'm saying that happens if it's brought in and made compulsory learning.

if it's not - fair enough - but how are you going to stop your kids finding out on their own and either challenging your view or bullying? (Hypothetical question)

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644383#Comment_120644383

Well in fairness I experienced a fair amount of completely unproven horseshit in a school setting when I was there...or at least a complete butchering of the science if there was any to begin with do that wouldn't be anything new

Take mindfulness....everyone was a mindfulness zombie for a couple of years

Then there was wellbeing...all I heard was wellbeing for a couple years

Then there were the in-services and nonsense about "learning styles"...

Very little actual hard evidence backing that nonsense up yet teachers had it forced down their throats because...well I suppose its an attractive idea, it seems like it could be right and it's nice to have something to blame other than your own lack of effort or aptitude without working hard if you you are not doing to well at something ..."oh yeah I'm a visual learner but that teacher didn't teach me the way I can learn" etc...I always smile to myself when I see or hear some person (probably fully believing the nonsense) wax lyrical about learning styles.

All bunkum imo.....that's not to say I have a definite opinion on this topic yet but it's not like everything taught to kids and indeed teachers has a sound basis in fact/research/science or is evidence based.

In my experience there's always someone pushing an agenda, always a new fad every year etc...schools are reactive...they always reflect the way society is going with a bit of a time delay.

Bobtheman

This is my last reply to you princess as you are incapable of understanding basic points.

In the 1960s the psychological community taught that homosexuality was a disorder. They were obviously wrong

Same with repressed memory syndrome which you have consistently dodged. They were wrong the psychlogical community

There is no hard science behind this. To be fair this is a huge problem for the psychlogical community. Even the psychiatric community.

So basically the whole thing is psychlogical and thus prone to error

Thus teaching an ideology based on a feeling is a mistake.

No blood test. No brain scan

I can take anti depressants but there is no test to determine if I'm lying or not.

I have a friend who got early retirement by claiming to be depressed. Most positive person I know

Bobtheman

I'm blocking you now princess. The psychlogical movement is prone to huge error but you are treating it with huge reverence.

It is a movement based on a feeling.

Let adults deal with their feelings but keep it away from kids.

You twisted my words on homosexuality.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644547#Comment_120644547

You're not making any points - you're just throwing out random conspiracies. If you could prove any of them had any relevance or there was any scientific proof that of a likelihood that any of this was coming into the classroom, I'd stick around - but before I have a chance to ask an honest question, or get some clarification, you've gone off and posted a compltely new even wilder accusation.

It's like Fox Mulder in the early x-files episodes.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644547#Comment_120644547

Not that your that interested in actual science that doesn't back your clear preformed opinion but brain scans show differences between cis and trans people. There's quite a few fMRI studies on this, smallosh cohorts but significant and repeated results, again underpinning this is a very real phenomenon, if one we don't fully understand. Science is wonderful in that it's constantly evolving and changing, unlike a lot of people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644504#Comment_120644504

I guess like everything else that children find out about.. that's how parents & society pass on culture & values.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644618#Comment_120644618

Sure I will look at the data. The princess ignores the fact that homosexuality was once treated as a disorder only 50 years ago or less but seems to think psychlogiy should be always be treated as gospel

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120644602#Comment_120644602

Random conspiracies? Really

So psychlogiy never said homosexuality was a disorder?

Never said repressed memories should be used legally?

Had come up with a definite test that points to a way to ensure that kids don't make life changing mistakes about their body?

It's a conspiracy to say a feeling might be wrong?.

Racism was built on a feeling that blacks were inferior

There is no meta study that proves trans is real. A meta study

Create a psychlogical condition and watch the kids fall into it.

am_zarathustra

Meta studies are just a collection of studies, generally in fields where consensus can be difficult due to confounding variables. Your talking like they are some gold standard, they arent. I'm not sure how much scientific training you have or how familiar you are with the Neuro field but the fMRI data from multiple studies is solid......you could tell a cis and trans male and/or female apart from the scans alone if your dead set on binning psychology. This isn't a social contagion. There are lots more nuanced conversations to be had around this topic and I am genuinely puzzled by the ASD link and will follow the field but this bizarre "its not science" business is unhelpful and is very much in the same vein as the "I did my own research but don't know what an antigen is" anti vax brigade.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645040#Comment_120645040

Princess is right your arguments are all over the place with all sorts of random off the wall bizarre tangents that make no sense.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641736#Comment_120641736

1. Suffering

Gender Dysphoria is a medical diagnosis according to DSM V as was Gender Identuty disorder in DSM IV - being trans is now self identifiable that is why there is a marked increase in Trans people. Self ID means anyone can self Identify they dont even have to know what that means for them..

When I used the term suffer i did it in the medical context of suffering from a cold not in a perjorative way, I can imagine how suffering from actual gender dysphoria would cause someone a lot of pain.

2, "suggesting people come out as trans because they have been sexually abused or are autistic or suffer from other mental health problems"

Its not a suggestion because there is a wealth of evidence from professionals with huge concerns over this.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/14/tavistock-clinic-ignored-link-autism-transgender-children/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/up-to-90pc-of-people-using-gender-service-may-be-autistic-audit-finds/42034649.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8596151/

3, "suggesting that being trans is not real people are being indoctrinated into it"

I'm not suggesting that people are because most adults have the capacituy to decide for themselves what they beleive to be truth based on their life expereince, maturity and common sense. I'm suggesting that for 5 year olds to teenagers the amount of misinformation peddled as sceintific fact is detrimental to their capacity to judge for themselves truthfully.

4, "born in the wrong body"

Suggesting this makes me transphobic?

https://time.com/4350574/jazz-jennings-transgender/

Is Jazz Jennings transphobic for suggesting it??

Is Munroe Burgndoff transphobic for saying that for years? https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/09/27/munroe-bergdorf-born-in-the-wrong-body-mermaids-trans-experience/

Is Susie Green and her child who is a trans woman? Is Mermaids the trans charity?

If thats transphobisc then what complete non science mentally damaging nonsense have all these people been talking about for the past decade?

Put your fingers in your ears and keep shouting transphobe at everyone who you disagrree with but most importantly dont ever discuss the actual problems with gender ideology.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641882#Comment_120641882

SO what is a childs reference point for knowing they have incongruence between their minds internal sens of gender and their bodies? We are going to say they just "know" is that it ? A child just knows and because they say so we must affirm that beleif regardless of our responsibilty as parents to protect them from all harm. How does a boy know that he really is a girl? is it the gender dysphoria or can they just be claiming they are trans where no gender dysphoria has to exist any longer? ANd if no gender dysphoria is present as a responsible adult in their lives should we affirm them anyway because what possiblke harm could come from affirming them?

I use the term brain washing because the gender unicorn of the gender bread man is completely and utterly baseless in science. How many genders are there? should we teach children all 80 genders should we teach them all the different pronouns? Its indoctrinating an entire generation into beleving that the most important aspect about themselves is their gender and that their gender may not align with their biological sex and that to align better we can change their sex to match their gender through medical transitioning. Explai the increase in referrals to Gender clinics in USA UK and Ireland?

No my children dont get a say in learning about gender identities in primary school. They are children I'm an adult Il decide what is good for them and what is not. Thats the job of a parent.

Looking for consistency in an an ideology that lacks any - here is a hell of lot of zero consistency

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/this-transgender-woman-has-a-full-beard-and-she-couldnt-be-h

I beleive that there are people who self identify as being Trans without meeting any of the DSM criteria for gender dysphoria. I beleive they identify as trans do you beleive that anyone can become trans by just saying they are trans?

It has no basis in scioence - use medical transition is scientific in the sense that it is medical procedures

Science would cosist of a scientific basis for gender affirming care -

Affirmative care was adapted despite studies stating that 80% of gender questioning "trans" children revert to their natal sex following puberty. A fact Polly Carmichael the director of Tavistock was aware of and expressed her own doubts initially about the experimental treatments at Tavistock in the early 2010s. "The question is, if you halt your own sex hormones so that your brain is not experiencing puberty, are you in some way altering the course of nature?" ‘[T]he debate revolves around the reversibility of this intervention—physical and also psychological, in terms of the possible influence of sex hormones on brain and identity development’ She said this in 2010 and then oversaw tavistock and failed to monitor, record and follow up with thousands of children who he put through experimental treatment in her service. SHe could have settled all debate by just keeping a record and following up with the thousands of children she put on experimental treatments. So why on earth didnt she - if w e had the follow up data on the 1000s of children that have passed through Tavistock and how they are predominantly living their lives as the opposite sex and hasve had better outcomes then it would be hard to argue against that - but Tavistock had to have a court order placed on them to publish the only study they commisioned which said that 98% of children who received puberty blockers went on to cross sex hormones.

Explain to me why we should be following affirmative care? bearing in mind the following

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/sweden-pulls-way-back-from-gender-affirming-care-for-children/

https://segm.org/Finland_deviates_from_WPATH_prioritizing_psychotherapy_no_surgery_for_minors

We are introducing a bill on conversion therapy specifically to stop children receiving talk therapy because its seen as conversion therapy when sweden and finland are doing the exact opposite they are pulling social and medical transiotionig and doubling down on talk therapy. SO who is pushing this in Ireland?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646013#Comment_120646013

Everything absolutely everything you come out with is extremely pejoratively judgemental and all about being trans is negative, wrong, shameful, non existent.

Of course people are going to call your views transphobic.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646195#Comment_120646195

Are you saying I'm transphobic?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645040#Comment_120645040

Yes. I never countered these points because you never made them - you just went on three unconnected seemingly transphobic rants in three consecutive posts. I stopped reading after that because i felt you'd abandon those too if I commented, so what was the point?

When you clarify the points I made aout Deana Wilson Atkins and Gingerbread and the connection.between the two instead of abandoning the train of thought, we can move on.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646200#Comment_120646200

I think we both answered that yesterday morning.

Bobtheman

My main point is that psychology has made many errors in the past. In the 1950s it still viewed homosexuality as a disorder. Repressed memory is another one. Pure bullshit.

So now we have another mainly psychlogical theory that can't be definitely proved.

I have seen posts above about brain scans but I'm skeptical about those being definite but will explore

You never acknowledge any of the above princess.

As to the ginger bread man why should I bother replying to that when you ignored her earlier comments saying a feeling not biology or any hard science is to be ignored in determining gender.

I think we are going to have to park talking to each other princess as we seem to be going in circles

Bobtheman

Tes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645810#Comment_120645810

Yes in that post i was but my central point remains - psychology has been dreadfully wrong before and I gave a clear example of the way homosexuality was classed as a disorder.

There are many issues with other psychlogical assessments even today. Huge criticism of the way they classify things

Look at drop the disorder by Jo Watson

So until we have more concrete evidence and I do accept that some evidence on brain scans might indicate a practical test bút I doubt we have definite evidence yet.

So we should teach kids that they can be the individual they want to be and adopt traditional traits from what ever gender but I would steer them away from nonsense like declaring themselves a boy or girl or pretending a trans man is the same as a biological male.

If they want to explore it as an adult go for it but no kid should be given medication.

Lots of evidence it's a phase or kids just become gay.

The whole trans thing is mainly ideology masquerading as science

When we have more evidence let's look.

Meanwhile read trans - when ideology meets reality by Helen Joyce

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646491#Comment_120646491

Off the wall bizarre line of thinking

Psychology used to think homosexuality was a disorder therefore everything trans could all be a big mistake.

Your thoughts on this are meandering all over the place with all sorts of weird unconnected tangents.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646511#Comment_120646511

This is again very odd ramblings with claims that trans does exist and doesn't exist

Helen Joyce is deeply and disgustingly transphobic and wants to pretty much eradicate trans people out of existence.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646200#Comment_120646200

I have outlined how a number of the views you expressed in this thread are transphobic.