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Any explicable reason why Judge Martin Nolan isn't under greater scrutiny by media + the state?

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13

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    #62
    monseiur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭monseiur


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534997#Comment_120534997

    Whatever happened to the 150 acres of farmland McDowell bought back in 2005 which was earmarked for a new prision. It was known as Thornton Hall, located in north Co. Dublin. McDowell was minister for justice at the time. Cost an eyewatering €30 million at the time - it was and perhaps still is the highest price ever paid for farmland anywhere and has cost us, the taxpayer, another €20 million since and not a single block has been laid.



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    #63
    NattyO
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭NattyO


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553799#Comment_120553799

    It is currently being "evaluated" for Ukrainian housing.



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    #64
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,691 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553648#Comment_120553648

    This is done elsewhere.

    Reduces the amount of very low level convictions. Stops people being too scared to admit to drug use in healthcare situations. Stops people being blackmailed in to not reporting dealers (well, removes an element of it).



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    #65
    monseiur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭monseiur


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553815#Comment_120553815

    Assuming houses will be built and in the unlikely event that the Ukrainians ever return home, no doubt it will be occupied by economic migrants from Sub Saharan Africa and elsewhere and will end up being the most expensive ghetto in Europe, something like Little Mogadishu in Sweden..........at least the Swedes did not fork out €30 million for 150 acres of farmland to create their slum.



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    #66
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That's not going to get the massive profits (and consequent violence) out of the hands of drug gangs. So just tinkering at the edge really.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #67
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554645#Comment_120554645

    It isn't intended to affect the drug gangs. you are complaining that decriminalising drugs wont do something it is never intended to do.



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    #68
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Real reason is practical one


    Not enough prison spaces

    Obviously they're being told how many they can manage to bang up



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    #69
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,984 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I agree we shouldn't imprison addicts for being addicts, but most addicts the Gardai deal with are also prolific thieves, shoplifters, small time dealers (remember, simply giving an illegal drug to someone is considered dealing) and drunken/high public nuisances. Not all, but definitely most the ones going to prison. But i'm not learned enough to figure out the best solution here. We need treatment, but likewise we still need incarceration for repeat offenders. Decriminalisation is the first step.



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    #70
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554671#Comment_120554671

    Sure but we're talking about prison capacity. Can't be very many in at any given time for simple possession for personal use. Hundreds if not more in for lengthy terms for possession with intent to supply and all of the violence associated with the illegality of drugs due to the vastly inflated profits on offer (and I'm not talking about the hard-up user supplying their friends to pay for their own use)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #71
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553107#Comment_120553107

    IPS staff are civil servants and civil servants are not allowed mouth off to the media with their personal opinions on government policy.

    Now maybe the governor is not technically a civil servant but it's still wrong that he has a mouthpiece in the media imho.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #72
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557602#Comment_120557602
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553648#Comment_120553648

    This is the post i responded to originally. no mention of prisons. and they have thought it through. quite a lot of people have.



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    #73
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Prison is what the whole thread is about! Several other posters were discussing decriminalising drugs to reduce pressure on prison spaces (but it seems to me that only doing this at the lowest level, possession for personal use, won't have much effect and most of the bad effects of the drug trade on society will remain)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #74
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557694#Comment_120557694

    The thread is about judge nolan. some people have been talking about prison spaces but I wasn't. I was responding directly to a comment you made. A comment in which you criticised somebody who knows far more about this anybody here.



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    #75
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557647#Comment_120557647

    Senior public servants are regularly in front of the media opining. Drew Harris isn't camera shy or afraid to stick his oar in. Wouldn't be the first Garda Commissioner to be like that either.

    The Governor of Mountjoy is perfectly entitled to speak, they are not mere mouthpieces for the Government.



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    #76
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557712#Comment_120557712

    The thread is about Nolan's sentencing policy so, yes, it's about prison.

    Lack of spaces is no excuse. Build more. We always seem surprised in this country that a strongly growing population makes our already deficient infrastructure even more inadequate.

    And if people were not allowed criticise government ministers on the basis that they "know far more about this than anybody here" 🙄🙄🙄 this forum would be dead. Few ministers have any real knowledge of their brief before they take office and many don't when they leave either...


    Edit: Sugar Rush referred to "Harris/McEntee" and given that Simon Harris has taken over from McEntee while she is on leave, I presumed they were referring to Simon Harris not Drew Harris.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #77
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557785#Comment_120557785

    Nobody's suggesting he should be a mouthpiece but if he wants to act like an opposition justice spokesman he should resign and become one.

    Many of Drew Harris's comments have been well out of order imho also. The job of the police is to enforce the law not tell politicians what the laws should be.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #78
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557823#Comment_120557823

    The person I was referring to is the governor mountjoy prison, the person you accused of "mouthing off".



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    #79
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557841#Comment_120557841

    He absolutely was not "acting as opposition" and that's a charge against him you should probably withdraw.

    He was giving his professional opinion on what isn't working within the prison system. This is important stuff and if the senior leadership in the Irish Prison System can't speak, we're on a hiding to nothing in this space.



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    #80
    Sugar_Rush
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557694#Comment_120557694

    Really need clarification on this.

    There's a lot of "it seems to me" or, "probably" or, "I suspect".

    Actual stats of incarceration for drug associated crime and the nature of the crime (i.e. anti-social under the influence, violence under the influence, or just under the influence);

    That clarity is necessary before anyone goes making rash conclusions.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



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    #81
    Sugar_Rush
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557841#Comment_120557841

    Many of Drew Harris's comments have been well out of order imho also. The job of the police is to enforce the law not tell politicians what the laws should be.

    lol

    Diabolical.

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



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    #82
    Sugar_Rush
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557995#Comment_120557995

    He was giving his professional opinion on what isn't working within the prison system. This is important stuff and if the senior leadership in the Irish Prison System can't speak, we're on a hiding to nothing in this space.

    I'd tend to agree with this, in contrast to

    Many of Drew Harris's comments have been well out of order imho also. The job of the police is to enforce the law not tell politicians what the laws should be.

    this.

    Simon Harris went on some bender a few weeks back about "cracking down" on weekend drug users as being the fuel that empowers gangland drug distributers.

    It kind of comes back to this idea behind my other favorite topic of discussion:

    The justice minister introduced legislation to criminalize clients of sex workers in 2017, all the while the criminal scum that were and are perpetrating the actual trafficking and trade facilitation are given free reign (literally - and this is the work of the enlightened politicians).

    Now Harris (Simon) is pointing the finger at college kids smoking reefer with their pals at weekends instead of redoubling efforts to target the ACTUAL criminals.

    Ludicrous.

    Would it be because, he's a politician and doesn't have to bare witness to the practical ramifications of the hypothesis he so resolutely stands behind?

    So yes, the "boots on the ground" should absolutely have input into political determination (as they rightfully do), be that through media or official liaison.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



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    #83
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558101#Comment_120558101

    Do you want a quasi police state?

    Nobody elected Drew Harris so why is he getting involved in political matters?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #84
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560170#Comment_120560170

    The man is entitled to give an opinion publicly.



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    #85
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,129 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    He's an ex-garda so untypical of members of the judiciary. The "lock 'em up for life" brigade focus on this inferring that he is underqualified and incompetent. There is nothing wrong with his judgements other than in certain cases the sentences he hands down are at the minimum end of the scale. People think judges alone determine the length of sentences. Of course they don't. There are already min-max terms laid down in the statute books for each category of offence.



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    #86
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563130#Comment_120563130

    More than that, the higher courts such as the Supreme Court and Court of Appeal have set out sentencing guidelines via case law for a whole range of offences, and these guidelines are reviewed by the Judicial Council who make recommendations and amendments when unusual or novel facts or circumstances in certain cases are added to the guidelines. Nolan or another judge can't exactly stray from these guidelines, or else the sentance will inevitably be revised on appeal, either at the suit of the DPP or the defendant.



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    #87
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561499#Comment_120561499

    There is actually a specific legal prohibition on civil servants doing such and imho that should apply to him as well. He's paid to do a job not mouth off in public about his bosses.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #88
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563130#Comment_120563130

    He has a track record of giving soft sentences to sex offenders.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #89
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564249#Comment_120564249

    **** me. A man giving his professional opinion on something he is an expert on is "mouthing off". Cop yourself on.



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    #90
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,704 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564747#Comment_120564747

    Yet e.g. the head of a government department is specifically prohibited from doing similar.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #91
    Buachillsalach
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Buachillsalach


    Josh Conlon walks free from court for role in horror Dublin assault that saw woman scalded - Irish Mirror Online


    Zero deterrent here. "You were only at the event, you weren't the prime mover" off you go you little scamp.



This discussion has been closed.
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