Would you support a new Rural Political Party

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547926#Comment_120547926

How much of Ireland’s milk is ending up in baby formula?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549104#Comment_120549104

That's not necessarily a bad thing for many parts of the world that we export to.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548687#Comment_120548687

Nobody is expecting most journey's to not still be by car.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549132#Comment_120549132

It is a bad thing more often than not where financial resources are limited and there may not be access to clean water. Even in rich countries it’s not optimal for children’s health to move away from breastfeeding. But sure it’s a massive elephant in the room.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549206#Comment_120549206

Who do you think you are??? And don't say a "concerned citizen". We're all concerned citizens.

Here are a few ideas to get more informed about what you're pontificating on and the world in general:

1. Contact the Farm Relief Services (https://frsfarmreliefservices.ie/contact-us/) and they'll organise a few week's work for you on the farm of your choice.
2. Read something by Nasim Taleb ('Skin in the Game' is a personal favourite: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36064445-skin-in-the-game).
3. Go to a mart and put your questions to people you meet there.
4. Organise a community meeting wherever you live. Invite everyone you know and put up flyers in the local shops. Organise teas/coffees for attendees and ask them what their priorities are with respect to food, energy, climate change, etc.
5. Collect litter on a Saturday morning and encourage others to do the same.
6. Volunteer in an old folks home: spend an hour talking to a few residents.

Then, come back on here and tell us all what to do again.

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120539993#Comment_120539993

the reason sfp was introduced was so a cheap food policy could be pursued. it was introduced as compensation for that . so don't flatter yourself thinking you are paying to support farmers. you would be paying more if it wasn't the case.

farmertipp

tr

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549206#Comment_120549206

No business is going to reduce/ close in an altruistic fashion at cost to them to save the planet.

If the government want farms to reduce/ close they need to incentivise it. The organics scheme is an example that works.

At the end of the day I will do what makes most sense for me. If it makes sense for me to reduce I will, if it doesn't I won't.

The same applies to everyone else, for example people will switch to an electric car if it makes sense for them, if it doesn't they won't. Most are not going to switch just to save the planet.

minerleague

If a new party is based on current independants then I wouldn't be a supporter. Most of them don't seem to work well in a party structure and want to be free to do and say their own thing. Most of them ( and people who vote for them ) are hoping for a hung dail so they can get a special deal while remaining outside of criticism of being in Gov ( running with fox and hunting with hounds )

Also for a party to last long term it should be built from ground up rather than running candidates in a general election as its first step ( top down )

tesla_newbie

I like Fitzmaurice, he’s genuine but he’s too much of a reactionary, allow me ask a sincere question if I may ?

what’s to stop Irish farming transforming to organic?, the Greens can’t complain about farmers expecting increased supports in order to facilitate such a radical shift

my point is, instead of complaining about environmental regulations, why not call the environmentalists bluff and take advantage of the green revolution?

quantity hasn’t served Irish farmers well, only the processors, produce quality

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549604#Comment_120549604

This is why IMO a full-fledged political party won't emerge from the current conversations. But I still think there may be a looser alliance of independents competing in the next election. Fitzmaurice is probably looking at the formation of the current government and thinking "If some 10-12 of us independents had our act together and had been ready to negotiate as a group with FF and FG we might have been able to seal a deal and keep the Greens out." And there's a fair chance a similar scenario will arise after the next election. But there isn't really time for a group of indies to hash out a common front among themselves from scratch before sitting down as a group to negotiate government formation with FF/FG/whoever. So that's what I think is the real purpose of the current proposals, to have some coordination among independents ready to go among independents so they'll be ready to talk about doing a deal as a group after the next election.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549676#Comment_120549676

Take a look in the supermarket. Maybe 1% of the shelf space is for organic.

People say they value food etc but then buy the cheapest they can.

The green revolution may need to focus on energy generation on farms.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549676#Comment_120549676

While I agree that producing volume hasn’t served farmers well and there is merit in organic , the reality is that organic is a niche . In beef the organic sector produces c. 3 k tonnes out of 550k tonnes of overall production .

Increase the amount produced organically by all means but it will never meet the demands of a growing world population.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549783#Comment_120549783

There is no shortage of food and Irish farmers aren’t interested in selling to people too poor to pay for food , I’m saying as we produce so much of a low margin product, why not produce a specialised food product? , farmers will need large supports to shift however

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549676#Comment_120549676

Who would buy all that organic produce? Upwards of 60-70% of Irish organic beef is sold thru conventional markets.

And from what I can gather, farmers have little issue with environmental regulations. But there is push back against the lecturing from all-and-sundry about how we're apparently eco terrorists.

The problem is partly the message as any new regulations mean uncertainty, possible loss to income, and extra paperwork. But the messenger is also a major issue - whether that's Eamon Ryan, the Extinction Rebellion crew on Twitter, or some posters on this thread. I'll be nice and say they are well-intentioned but their do-as-i-say approach only creates more division and makes things infinitely worse.

Which brings us back to politics: a rural political party might get a few seats but I'd suggest more regular communication with the current TDs and councillors would serve rural dwellers and those in rural towns and villages just as well. Spend your energy hammering home your message to them (whatever that message might be) rather than spending it on yet another political entity whose elected reps would soon be absorbed and disappear into the existing structure.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549796#Comment_120549796

Jeysus this is childish.

Farmers don't have a problem with environmental regulations they just don't like the people promoting them.

Either the first bit is a lie or the second bit is true and these farmers are pathetic.

Is "stop Extinction Rebellion from being big meanies on Twitter" going to be a manifesto pledge for this new party ?

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548728#Comment_120548728

When nobody goes to bed hungry you can come back with your “ how much is too much “ . Whatever it means ?

Irish farmers and those working in the food industry in this country work long hard days and nights to produce what they do. Most don’t have time for nebulous nonsense

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549796#Comment_120549796

It would be a transition that takes time and perhaps the shelf prices would need to remain as is but farmers would need to be provided with special supports

I’m saying call the greens bluff by going organic but challenge them to provide the necessary supports if they really believe in it , beat them at their own game

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549825#Comment_120549825

Do you mean people in the third world etc going to bed hungry?, farmers here aren’t interested in those people as customers as they have no money or certainly not the price of what would give a return to Irish beef producers , our markets should be people in the west

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120539993#Comment_120539993

I can't answer you exactly, but they will be all dairy farms.

That's what you will do if younremove the subsiidies....turn every farm into a dairy farm..

And without the subsidy, you'll have no stick to beat them with either.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549676#Comment_120549676

We produce quality, that's why our product sells so well abroad.

The most difficult market to sell our product in is at home.

Any of our farmers producing product for the home market have either gone broke, are goi g broke or have changed enterprises.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549796#Comment_120549796

Right on the nail..

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549873#Comment_120549873

With the way the CAP is structured, nobody eating beef or dairy is paying Irish farmers sufficiently for it . Agricultural subsidisation produces massive quantities of wholesome food at a price that is affordable to the masses . That is the way it has to stay.

If we stopped production in the morning the deficit would have to come from somewhere else - probably outside of Europe . Given what the volume we produce it would be difficult to replace us

I genuinely think those advocating for example for a reduction in the number of ruminants grasp this point . A growing world population has to be fed .

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120540309#Comment_120540309

The same way as well his the transport target with the same amount of cars, or our energy target burning the same amountbof electricity....innovation and science and management.

Gonna be awful dissapointment to so many if some of the current trials prove the solution..

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549947#Comment_120549947

I was replying to the comment about “ people going to bed hungry “

those people can’t afford to pay what would provide Irish farmers with a margin so pointing to “ people still hungry “ is a pointless argument

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549941#Comment_120549941

Yes but while the product is excellent, the current system has run into the new environmental political reality

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549980#Comment_120549980

If people being hungry is a pointless argument, I will rest my case

I’m out

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550015#Comment_120550015

Farmers in Ireland produce food to make a return , not out of altruism towards the hungry in other parts of the world so it’s reasonable to point out that saying “ we shouldn’t reduce output as there are people going to bed hungry “ is a flawed argument

those hungry folks can never afford Irish food prices

older by the day

No but if Europe don't produce enough of its own. Then it will be taking it out of the mouths of the hungry people. Go away and grow your window boxes. The price war on dairy products is what is worrying most on here this morning. Rather than trying to teach your type

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550111#Comment_120550111

I eat meat three times per day and wouldn’t vote green in a fit , I’m simply making suggestions about how Irish farmers might pivot towards something that would shut the greens up

Why isn’t there adequate taxation on jet fuel? That’s the real question.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550150#Comment_120550150

The subsidies should be increased but the price is farmers must go organic, make us a high margin food exporter

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550150#Comment_120550150

Areas with a lot of dairy production would just see big dairy farms Hoover up all the land currently in beef, sheep and tillage production in turn leading to industrial scale dairy farming. This would in turn lead to greater pollution as land that wasn’t being farmed intensively before would now be. Without subsidies you could basically draw an X through a good percentage of west of Ireland farms due to them being unviable. This would lead to desertification of poorer land and an even further brain drain on rural areas. But of course this is what the greens and co would have a wet dream over deserted land and push everyone towards urban areas. I’m sure you’d have no issue with this also as you clearly are so far removed from the reality of rural life and also maintain people should be shoved towards urban areas.

893bet

If ye haven’t realised there is lads here with hidden (or not so hidden agendas) goading and trolling. Pretending to be genuine and claiming “we are only asking farmers what they will do to reduce”. It’s a akin to asking a taxi driver what the transport approach will be.

There are no targets on an individual farm like that. Government policy will push the reduction as they see fit and is already doing so (nitrates banding, organic payments incentives, LESS incentives, liming schemes, lots of carrot approaches infairness). In the same way policy will push transport reductions (carbon tax on oil, incentives for EV etc.).

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550600#Comment_120550600

No need for paranoia, I don’t vote green, nothing I say will make you believe it however

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550639#Comment_120550639

My post was not directed at you.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550233#Comment_120550233

Organic food production is largely a dead end. The market isn't there and I wouldn't be surprised if it is a market going backwards.

High margin it definitely is not.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550742#Comment_120550742

Fierce trolling by you since the beginning of the thread. Ignorance too.

Do you realise that every other sector of the economy is subsidised too to some degree? Remember if all the IDA grants didn’t happen, there would be no high paying pharmaceutical or Tech jobs. Lots of the people that are trying to dictate to others what they should do would have only one problem then.

There is a wise saying “A man with a full belly has many problems and a man with an empty belly has only one problem”

Remember that you need farmers three times per day every day of your life.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550742#Comment_120550742

They are EU subsidies to pay to maintain food security in EUROPE where guess what we ship a lot of produce to.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550839#Comment_120550839

Beggars belief really, is it trolling or is this the scale of sheer ignorance some urban dwellers have for what goes on in rural Ireland and their magical silver bullet remedies to the problems rural residents encounter. To suggest a bus service a few posts back as a viable method of transport for the majority of the rural population is just completely farcical. Cloud cuckoo land I believe the poster to be living in lol

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550903#Comment_120550903

Either that or a paid shill. Propaganda is in vogue with these bad actors.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550742#Comment_120550742

You can use carrot , farmers who go organic will get much higher subsidies, you have to remember that this thing is political, Irish farmers going organic won’t make a blind bit of difference if China doesn’t stop building coal plants etc but the green agenda is the EU is not going be stopped by Michael Fitzmaurice

like was said in Succession the other night

“ you can’t win against the money “

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550132#Comment_120550132

You keep droning on with the same mantra, but listen to nothing.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550903#Comment_120550903

Which goes to illustrate one thing and it was the original premise of this thread. Rural people especially farmers need a party to give voice to their views .

If what is written , by some on here, is indicative of what the Greens think then may God help us all .

Jack98

If there is a new party to be founded to represent rural Ireland it will require some intellectual and powerful speakers who can get their points across in an articulate and respectful way.

While I’m sure most rural residents may agree with the rhetoric of a lot of what the likes of fitzMaurice says at times he has a tendency to fly off the handle and come out with some very anti environmental statements.

In order for a new party to succeed you would need play away with environmentalists in order to secure a transition in farming for example that would be gradual and agreeable with farmers (no one is saying farmers want to do nothing).

A huge proportion of rural dwellers are far more educated than most urban dwellers so it is time to tap into this cohort who have experience of rural living and challenges to form something to represent rural Ireland and ensure it prospers instead of the current downward trajectory it finds itself on.

Brussels Sprout

A huge proportion of rural dwellers are far more educated than most urban dwellers 

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550657#Comment_120550657

Not in Europe anyway, the amount of 'bio' certified meat, fruit and veg available in the supermarkets has increased massively over the last decade. There was a time when you had to go to specialised organic shops to get anyway, nowadays every supermarket will have it's own line of products and the range gets wider every year from what I can see.

The price has however gone down a lot too, so I doubt if it's high margin alright

paddysdream

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551700#Comment_120551700

Ag subs are an investment same as fdi ones.

Apart from it providing raw materials and food at or below cost of production I would hazard a guess it is 99% plus spent in Ireland and supports the wider rural economy.

paddysdream

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551712#Comment_120551712

1.Zero as its a waste of time and effort which could cripple one of our few indigenous industries for a generation or more.

2.I would imagine the government of the day would realise its an idea best served by giving it lip service and a public position of mea cupla and give us more time and money and we go again.

That's this farmers opinion anyways.

paddysdream

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551774#Comment_120551774

Organics is a joke only made possible by massive subs.Its unable to be a viable option without those for 99% of farms

You end up with a low production system selling at conventional prices into a market yhat really doesn't exist apart from at the margins.

The slighest oversupply as will happen with the new organics scheme will see the price come in line with conventional market so the worst of both worlds for the farmer