An end to free parking?

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597938#Comment_120597938

No. But I live rurally these days

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597907#Comment_120597907

Agreed.

which ultimately impacts jobs…here.

then the government instead of a parking levy will introduce an online shopping levy… at the behest of businesses. You don’t really impulse shop online..

you’ll have the green brained moaning about people in cars but then more trucks, vans, aircraft delivering express stock inventory….

so no matter what the ordinary citizen does, there will be some green brained individuals attempting to stir the pot just trying to inconvenience, just trying to wind up, just trying to gain attention and notoriety by getting people to part with extra cash…

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597871#Comment_120597871

Invalid argument. Strawman.

We are not talking about fitting double the number of cars into half the number of spaces, are we? No! We are talking about the current free parking at employers premises being charged for.

PT has been the answer shouted out on the thread. PT is not suitable for a huge number of people, as has been pointed out over and over.

some people value their time and don’t want to add hundreds of hours per year to their commute.

Flinty997

The proposal is one of a series of measures the NTA is likely to take to drastically reduce the number of cars that enter the city centre....By 2030, the Government is seeking to reduce transport emissions by 50% and cut the total distance driven in all car journeys by 20%.

If you want to cut hundreds of hours per year off a commute, don't have a 70km round trip to work.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120598815#Comment_120598815

Its about changing cultural/societal habits. Which is hard.

https://bolt.eu/en/blog/can-commuting-habits-be-changed/

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120598815#Comment_120598815

i don't read it the same way; it simply states that the total car journey distance should drop by 20%. not that every single journey should be reduced by 20%; the goal could be achieved by 20% of all journeys being replaced by alternative options, or all journeys be reduced by 20% each - but the goal, were it to be reached, would be a hybrid of the two.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599121#Comment_120599121

It means total cumulative mileage for the nation, should be 20% lower. ie. drive less or use PT more.

Still a big target considering most high mileage persons do not have much access to PT

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599155#Comment_120599155

Big mileage driver commuter are only 6%

The vast majority of drivers do. There isn't a huge coloration between distance to work, access to PT and choosing to drive.

magicbastarder

One thing not often touched on when people talk about the time taken to get to work, is what that time is spent doing.

For example, I used to get the bus and Luas to the office, probably two hours total each day. A colleague was driving from Gorey, probably two hours each day also. Guess who I would argue had the better quality of life with their commute? I was regularly able to have a snooze on mine.

Or else as a chap I follow on Twitter pointed out after people queried why he got the train to Tralee for a work trip - yes, it would have been cheaper and a little quicker driving but by getting the train, he was actually able to work on the journey down.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120598697#Comment_120598697

Yeah, genius idea. Because we all stay in the same job/location our whole lives. Oh, wait...no, we don't.

I consider it more important to have my kids remain in their community and in their local schools. My commute is further down the priority list. I don't think working at the local fast food restaurant will pay the mortgage and subsidise dole scroungers with no commute at all. My skills are best used outside of my locality and often outside of the country.

Your off-the-cuff suggestion is just ridiculous and ignores the complexities of real life.

There is no way public transport can compete with private transport when it comes to journey times.

And I believe journey time, is the real deciding factor for most people, not cost.

I google mapped it, from my home to Liffey Valley Shopping Centre by car is 12km and takes and estimated 16 minutes. I'd say this is pretty accurate.

From my home to Liffey Valley Shopping Centre by public transport, involves my having to take two different buses, and the very fastest journey time was 1 hour and 1 minute. That's doesn't include time I will waiting at bus stops.

If I worked there, or shopped there, which am I going to choose?

There is a lot of overthinking on these threads. It's not that complicated. As long as this is the true scenario - and I believe this is what it comes down to for many people when it comes to public transport - that it takes too long and is just inconvenient - then people can talk around it until they are green in the face, but they are not going to convince others to give up their cars for public transport.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599281#Comment_120599281

Similar situation when both myself and a colleague needed to do trips from our Dublin base over to Shannon. If both of us were going I would hitch a ride but at the end of a long day I would rather spend 3 hours getting razzled in the buffet coach than 2 hours behind a wheel.

A big caveat though: Conditions on train. Without a seat and table driving wins hands down.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599400#Comment_120599400

Fair point. I just looked up the same thing on google maps. 31 mins driving. 1hr 43 mins by public transport.

So I have to go do some work in Kilmeage tomorrow. 1hr 1 min driving. 3 hr 52 mins by public transport.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599400#Comment_120599400

Depends on the journey.

Theres a bit more going on with Liffey Valley than lets get people on PT. I would lay strong odds that their primary motivation was revenue generation and removing all day parkers who weren't using the Shopping Center. Which was causing capacity issues for actual customers. But all done under the guise of public transport initiatives and eco concerns. Long before they brought paid parking I was avoiding it due to constant heavy traffic around it.

If you are on a circular to a destination is going to take longer than radial route due to our road layout and transport system. Getting PT for me cuts my commute by 50% vs the car. The major of the difference is caused by heavy traffic.

Flinty997

The majority of people do tiny distance daily by car. Not cross country for hours.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599803#Comment_120599803

I not going to waste my time arguing the obvious "it depends on the journey". LV is just one example. I could give you multiple other where the journey times are similar.

"Circular routes" taken by public transport is not up to me personally to solve. I just want to get where I need to be, in a reasonable time without spending hours getting there. I have a busy life. And taking 3/4 times to get where I want to go on public transport, is not a reasonable use of my time.

If PT works for you, great. But until public transport can offer me an alternative that is competitive with the speed and convenience of driving myself where I need to be, than I won't be using it. It's really as simple as that.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599870#Comment_120599870

If your sweeping generalization didn't ignore it, it wouldn't have had to be corrected.

You can do what you like. The cost will just increase as will journey times.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599907#Comment_120599907

You didn't correct anything. :)

I stated the truth about journey times on public transport versus private cars, and you're just trying to blur it with bluster about "circular routes" etc.

The fact that it takes me 16 mins approx to get from A to B (in this example LV) as opposed to 4 times as long on PT is not a sweeping generalisation. It's a fact. One I can repeat on multiple journeys I make regularly across Dublin. PT just takes too long, and is too inconvenient.

Here is another journey I make regularly - Tallaght to Loughlinstown. A mere 20km journey that takes almost five times as long on public transport, versus 22 minutes driving.

And another, which came up on a previous discussion (I think it may have been about removing parking).

The bottom line is, even if the driving time was merely doubled with traffic, driving is still quicker and more comfortable than public transport.

Until that changes, I don't expect to see many rushing to surrender their cars and jump on buses that wind half way around the world before eventually getting you where you need to go.

Flinty997

I didn't blur anything with circular. Your examples are using an literal orbital motorway. None are city center they are both also in a different county. If you never meet congestion on the M50 then great. But I don't think free parking in another county is really the focus of this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600497#Comment_120600497

The journey to LV or Intel don't involve the M50 and not all journeys are within county borders. I can give you plenty more examples that don't involve the M50 if you like, but its not what you want to hear.

My point stands. Public Transport is too slow, and too inconvenient.

If the Gov wants to get people out of their cars, they're going the wrong way about it.

Flinty997

The Govt aren't trying to stop you using your car to get to Kildare, or Wicklow.

They want to stop congestion and pollution from cars sitting in traffic in the city centre where it blocking improvements to PT and degrading the environment for the majority of the people for the convenience of a shrinking minority. A carrot won't work. It has to be the stick.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600727#Comment_120600727

On my route they simply changed the lights to longer wait for cars, and narrowed the roads to single lane, and added a load of one way or no right turns, to make a lot of routes I used to use commuting in the car completely unviable. Increased the toll to €10 each way.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600790#Comment_120600790

Improving your own local environment, effects you more than the rest of the world.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600749#Comment_120600749

This makes me laugh. I remember one time you arguing vigorously that my then commute by car into to the city centre couldn't possibly take me as long as I said it did, that I had to be exaggerating, (and even then, it was half the journey time of public transport!).

Now I believe the same journey would take even longer by PT and involve multiple changes when the finish messing around with the (circular) bus routes? How is that an improvement 🤔 ?

And also honestly, who has the energy for that at the beginning and end of every day? Not me.

I don't know about you, but I consider Leixlip or Loughlinstown part of the suburbs. I really don't care about the postcode.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600829#Comment_120600829

What were you expecting to "see"

Eyre Square in Galway, the People's Park and Henry Street in Limerick, Ennis town, Mullingar, Roscommon, and Longford towns were notable in their exceedence of WHO guidelines, he said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41055959.html

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600825#Comment_120600825

Sounds like you have a talent for picking bad routes to the city centre. Can't help you with that. I've never considered M50 a toll free, traffic free, accident free route. You obviously have better luck with it. Maybe try using it to the city centre.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600868#Comment_120600868

The solution to traffic is rarely more cars.

https://connachttribune.ie/galway-is-seventh-worst-city-in-europe-for-car-traffic-congestion/

There been decades of trying more cars. Its never improved it.

Flinty997

If people are going to drive anyway. Seems a good opportunity to create some revenue. A 30~40 charge a day for parking, would do nicely. Would pay for some carbon credits, to allow people drive more.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600902#Comment_120600902

I don't need your help, thanks.

I actually don't use the M50 that often. I don't need to. There are other roads.

And no, when it comes to the City Centre, not really. I commuted into (and sometimes across) Dublin City Centre for secondary school and work from the age of 12 right up until the start of the pandemic, sometimes by PT and later by motorbike, and then by car, and I can assure you I knew every work around and rat run there was, and even on its worst day, the car was better, and quicker, than public transport.

Public transport just sucks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600942#Comment_120600942

Now you're just being silly.

Even that wouldn't work. People would just change jobs or refuse to take up jobs in the City Centre.

Find a job in Leixlip or Loughlinstown or an industrial estate somewhere outside the City Centre (cause we're only talking about the City Centre, right?)

Or work from home. Or worst case scenario, go on the dole!

As has already been said, it can't be all stick, and no carrot.