An end to free parking?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557130#Comment_120557130

eScooters have never been unbanned.

There are rules on bikes. You can put a folding bike in the luggage space.

I've seen people trip over bags or peoples legs.

It's up to the staff to enforce the rules.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557240#Comment_120557240

The amount of full sized no foldable bikes on the train has got beyond a joke now too. In fact i think i havent even seen a foding bike actually folded in many years now.

Bikes and scooters on the train are a scourge nowadays. They were fine when the trains were half empty.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557843#Comment_120557843

Maybe the trains need a dedicated carriage for bikes and scooters along with their owners. Surprised they would be allowed on with pedestrians from an health and safety point of view, it’s probably actually not legal if it was challenged.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557974#Comment_120557974

The rules are on their site. Folded bikes are allowed when folded. Full size bikes have to be in the bicycle rack provided, (usually two spaces per train) or booked on to Intercity journeys. Otherwise not allowed, people are just ignoring the rules and no ones enforcing them.

I was on one train where some moron locked their bike to the door handle, so the door couldn't open. Driver had to refuse to move the train until the bike was removed. The cyclists was very reluctant to move it. Should have a big fine for that. Bike confiscated etc.

I occasionally use a folding biking. Fold it when busy. But on a empty train I might not, I would leave it in the wheel chair space. But once I was asked to fold it, even though the train was empty. It also fits behind the last row of seats on an intercity train.

Sometimes they announce bikes are not allowed. But thats not fully accurate. But I get dirty looks with my bike folded. Pre lockdown I'd stopping using the folding bike. The train was too overcrowded even for a folding bike, or standing. It was so bad I actually went back to the car for a while. But gone back to the train again now as driving became impossible.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557974#Comment_120557974

I agree. That is what is done in other countries and should be done here too.

magicbastarder

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/06/the-hague-introduces-50-flat-fee-for-parking-to-deter-drivers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

...

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545593#Comment_120545593

I work in the private sector and parking is provided free on site. The site/employer absorb this cost to help attract people to work there.

For me, It's a 45 min drive to work and 35km road distance. If I were to take public transport, my journey becomes exactly 1 hour longer and would require at least 2 buses (if they showed up on time and didn't break down, or have another strike on). Personally I couldn't rely on PT even if it weren't so unattractive to me. I would be spending an extra 10 hours per week commuting, or an extra weeks shift per month to put it another way....and i'm one of the luckier ones where PT is an actual possibility. Just for fun, I checked for bicycle and it would take 2 hours.

If free parking were to be taken away, there would be a huge amount of staff who would hand in their notice and go work somewhere else, myself included. Even a nominal fee of €10 per day would be €100 per week net or circa 5k per year. More likely a €20 per day charge would be levied in most places over time, which would cut 10k off the salary of each employee. I don't consider the parking to be a benefit, rather it is a need. I and many others need to be get to work and home in some sort of reasonable time. PT can't do that in many, many cases and this is why we have so many cars on the road.

On your last point, BIK should indeed be paid on benefits, but you and I might differ on what a benefit and what a need is. I would say that for anyone requiring a parking spot at work, they need it and it is not a benefit, so no BIK should be due. If anything above and beyond a need is supplied, then BIK could/should be levied. To use your example for a company car....there is usually a benefit here unless it is only used for work purposes. When I had a company car, I paid BIK and I used it for personal use too. When I had company vans, I paid no BIK and rightly so. I did not use them for personal use 99% of the time. If a person has no other vehicle available to them and they use the van to get groceries and for other personal use, then BIK should be levied at a reduced level, but that's a whole other thread.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561955#Comment_120561955

35k is again on the longer end of commutes statistically for Ireland.

The vast majority are not doing that kind of a commute. So an employer isn't going to lose all their staff if parking is reduced. Because the vast majority have better public (and other) transport options than you do.

magicbastarder

earlier in this thread i think we had someone living in rural laois and working in pfizer - not sure where pfizer is, is it out near citywest? if so, that commute could be somewhere between 60 and 120km each way

anyway, the idea that we should set up whatever systems or processes to facilitate that sort of commute is ludicrous. we should be (where reasonable) dissuading people from doing that, not facilitating it.

and yes, i know about property prices in dublin. but you don't need to move to rural laois to avoid them; and that would probably cost more than €15 in fuel alone each way, or about 3.5k p.a. in fuel, and surely that (plus the time) would negate the benefits of living out that far?

again, however, we're potentially in a situation where we have to consider bad policy in one area to account for failed policy in another.

Flinty997

I've no problem with people deciding to do long commutes. But expecting public transport to facilitate them is a bit unrealistic.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562185#Comment_120562185

You can live in dead spot for public transport. Even in a city. It's why housing near a station generally is more expensive.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550635#Comment_120550635

I think they would form at least part of the solution. The problem is the tendency to over regulate to the point that they will be unattractive to potential users.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562068#Comment_120562068

The problem is more complex than the distance being greater than the average commute. Aside from the reliability issues I mentioned earlier (which apply to anyone taking public transport....especially the bus). If I were to take the bus, the road distance is the same as the car within a click or so. The bus stops outside my house and goes to the city. I would then have a 2 or 3 minute walk to the next bus which passes by my place of employment.

All this is outside of rush hour, leaving before 6am, but it still takes 100 minutes including the walk and wait time of 12 minutes from the 1st to the second bus. The journey times for the return leg are almost identical (5 min less for car and 6 min more for PT) despite it being rush hour traffic (leaving work at 5pm).

My Brother has a much shorter commute of 14km inside the M50. Car takes 20 minutes. Buses (needs to take 2) is 70 minutes. He uses an e-bike which gets him there in less than 40 minutes.

It's been a similar story no matter where I have worked. PT is always longer, way less reliable and a huge hassle most of the time. Take away parking where it is needed and there will be plenty of staff voting with their feet. Doesn't take long to add up the costs if one is charged to park at or near work.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120561955#Comment_120561955

There wouldn't be much point in people leaving in a huff if their new employer applies the same charge. Unless of course, they're moving to a job that doesn't require a private car commute, which would be a win-win.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562298#Comment_120562298

Except the new employer wouldn't be charging the same charge, or any charge if they wanted to attract people. Only a few stupid or greedy employers would start charging for parking if it was previously free. It certainly wouldn't be a blanket application across all employers.

Plenty of Teachers have left jobs in Dublin because the commute became too expensive for them. Add parking to that and what do you think will happen?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562275#Comment_120562275

They are very good questions. The only way it could be levied fairly on employees would be for every car park to have vehicle tracking systems, to charge people for the hours or days that they use the car park. That's an impractical option for most facilities.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562282#Comment_120562282

My Brother has a much shorter commute of 14km inside the M50. Car takes 20 minutes.

he's very lucky so, i'd say - a commute of 14km within the m50 at an average speed of 42km/h would be very unusual, i would guess.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562327#Comment_120562327

If the teacher are already leaving, then parking is the least of their woes.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562282#Comment_120562282

Distance is always going to compound any transport issue. How can it not.

You've decided to put yourself out of range for reasonable PT options. You. No one else.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562356#Comment_120562356

I don't have all the stats and I am sure it's just one of many reasons. Simple fact is higher fuel costs forced a handful of teachers to leave. Various things I heard were some retiring early, some leaving for a local position with less pay/hours and some just quitting. The increase in fuel could have been adding €100+ per week onto their fuel bills. If there was a parking charge on top, for many, it would just be time to throw in the towel. It's already very tough to fill vacant positions, especially in Dublin. But this is just one sector. Many others will have similar stories.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562350#Comment_120562350

Sure is...

The average speed in the capital at peak times is just 9.6 kilometres an hour, according to a new study by motor data company Inrix.

The study also found that Dublin drivers were the third highest globally to spend large amounts of time in traffic.

magicbastarder

14km is the equivalent of driving from ballymun to goatstown, for example. You wouldn't be able to drive significantly further in a straight line and travel farther if staying within the m50.

Ballymun to goatstown in 20 mins in a car is twice the speed Google maps is currently calculating, for a Saturday afternoon.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562391#Comment_120562391

They are already leaving. Free parking isn't going to fix that. That ship has sailed.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562414#Comment_120562414

I know a few people who to orbital routes around the M50 that are difficult on PT. But they also picked those jobs knowing transport was a a problem.

Every weekend I'm at matches all over the city. Traffic is horrific no matter what day.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562385#Comment_120562385

What are you on about? I already said the bus stops literally right outside my house and the connecting bus (which is the same direction of travel....so no crazy scenic routes) passes right by my place of employment...and it STILL TAKES AN EXTRA HOUR, or nearly 3 time longer than using the car.

Maybe I should up roots from the home I have lived in for decades and take my kids out of their local schools and ask my Wife to quit her job so I can fit into an area closer to my work where I can finally make PT work for me. Oh wait...no, it's just shíte and unreliable all over the country, so there's that. But yeah, it's my fault PT doesn't work for me. Good one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562414#Comment_120562414

I'm not using Saturday afternoon. I am using the arrive by "X" time and day to calculate the near true commute times. The 14km is on the one side of the city...no crossover.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562424#Comment_120562424

For many reasons they are leaving. Give them more reasons and more will leave, right? Everyone has a breaking point and as you apply more charges, cuts or disincentives, you naturally lose more of the workforce. So, take away their parking and the problem gets worse (just incase you missed the obvious point).

Flinty997

You're trying to normalize what are statistically fringe cases.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562759#Comment_120562759

I'm not trying to normalise anything. I am giving examples of my commute and that of my Brothers (IN DUBLIN CITY). If they were truly fringe cases, we would have far greater utilisation of PT. What are we at? 15% PT use? PT is cráp in most cases and for the people it suits on their work commute, god help them if they want to go anywhere outside of their normal use case. Another poster earlier gave a nice example where using PT was costing about €200 for his small family to take a trip.

I live in a very well served area. The Dart is a 10 min walk from me. I have a bus stop behind my house, and another 3 routes within 5 or 10 minutes of me. If I worked in some places, PT would work most of the time. If I worked in other places, it is simply not feasible even if in Dublin. You blurted out that I am responsible for being outside "reasonable PT options", but I say there are none, not unless one lives on the one route they need and the service is frequent. If I live in a council house, is it still my fault that I live outside of reasonable PT options?

Flinty997

We do have a greater use of PT

Pre-COVID 19 Dublin traffic count showed 71% of commuters using sustainable transport

May 28, 2020 by Cian Ginty

— Car use declined to just 28% of commuters entering city centre.

— Bus use overtakes car use for first time: Milestone follows public transport combined overtaking cars a number of years ago.

https://irishcycle.com/2020/05/28/pre-covid-19-dublin-traffic-count-showed-71-of-commuters-using-sustainable-transport/

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562819#Comment_120562819

"..If I worked in some places, PT would work most of the time. If I worked in other places, it is simply not feasible even if in Dublin..."

A lot of people manage it, especially in Dublin.

Its only trending one direction. Reduction of parking options is evitable.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562327#Comment_120562327

It depends on how the charge is levied, and whether employers are required to pass on the charge to employees, or allowed to absorb it, along with the costs of actually providing the parking facility.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562338#Comment_120562338

Fobbing in doesn't necessarily mean that they are recording every movement of every vehicle. Though in a pharm environment, it is possible they are indeed doing that. It wouldn't be the case in most workplaces.