Don't know where to turn

JACK BE NIMBLE

Hi, marriage is breaking down, my wife never accepts responsibility and always blames me for everything. More and more she is telling me that things I know happened didn't actually happen, I've let this slide in general but this has become more prevalent, today i called her on one of these instances and she completely denied it and told me i was imagining it. I most certainly am not, she also said that other stuff that happened before "was a joke" - completely gaslighting me. Anyway- today I suggested we record all conversations if this was going to be how it was, she was not happy and said we might as well just separate, then i suggested marriage counselling to see if we can open the floor to mutual discussion in a safe environment, she said no to this, that counselling was a load of **** and that she wasn't willing to purge herself to anyone and that separation was inevitable. This is the first time she has mentioned separation after i confronted her, before i just let it go. Now receiving silent treatment.

Anyway, not sure what next move is, have a house/mortgage three kids (17, 18 & 20 yrs old) , the thing is if things were fairer in this country part of me would welcome a separation, im sick and tired of her deceit and denial, but stuck here because my understanding is that I'll be screwed if i leave, and obviously because i want to be with my kids, with whom i have a great relationship. Any advice appreciated, thanks

FoxForce5

Lawyer up, never be alone with her, don't leave the house.

JACK BE NIMBLE

I know this question is like asking "how long is a piece of string?" but - what am i looking at here, if she applies for seperation then will i have to leave house (i dont have anywhere to go) , what other things can i do to protect myself?

Mongfinder General

She wants out - but like yourself probably has nowhere to go and doesn’t want to leave the kids up sh1t creek if the assets of the marriage are split - house sold etc.

It is a terrible situation but as your kids depart home they will be less dependent on you. Start saving (offside) and get yourself ready to buy a place 5 - 10 years down the line. You should be able to capitalize on your stake in the marriage in the future and then still provide a place for your kids to fall back on.

JACK BE NIMBLE

@Mongfinder General thanks a million for your feedback, really do appreciate it

Gaslighting 101 there. Be aware, though, that she'll try and claim you're guilty of "coercive control" if you take note of these examples. "Coercive control" and "narcissism" are all in vogue these days. The silent treatment/stonewalling is classic abusive behaviour.

Listen, there's loads there - and there's also more positives for you than you might be aware at present. Most obviously, the age of your kids is a blessing. You need to educate yourself on family law without delay. An efficient way is to tap into other people's experiences via meeting people going through this. Some people are exceptionally well informed about the law and procedure at these meetings. You don't have to be alone. Knowledge is power.

More immediately, I would suggest you do two things.

1. If in Dublin, attend the next support group meeting for people heading towards divorce ("separation" is mostly redundant since 2019, when the law was changed to allow one to divorce after 2 years). There are two I can find:

Stillorgan, this coming Wednesday/day after tomorrow at 6pm: https://www.meetup.com/saol-nua-dublin-support-group-for-separated-divorced-people/events/293179391/

Phibsboro, next Monday at 7pm: https://www.meetup.com/saol-nua-dublin-support-group-for-separated-divorced-people/events/293141230/

2. Attend the next Men's Aid meeting in Navan on Wednesday 17 May at 7pm. You need to ring/email in advance to book a place. There are many guys there with family law experiences and recommendations for family law solicitors for the most serious family law cases. The most at risk men will be there fighting false allegations levied against them by their ex-wife in order to secure control of the children (as the means for the ex-wife to remove the father and secure the family home for herself, of course).

You need to lawyer up as, by virtue of your gender, you will have to prove you're a better parent than your children's mother in the highly secretive family law courts of Ireland. For a taste of these judgments, have a read of this family law case from Clare in January just gone (replace 'man' with 'woman' and you get the idea): https://www.limerickpost.ie/2023/01/11/limerick-worker-claimed-wife-stripped-and-assaulted-him-over-affair/

Larbre34

You should speak privately to a solicitor who specialises in the field, document your concerns with them and begin preparation for your separation now.

At worst you will both get 50% of the assets and frankly peace of mind and personal contentment is worth more than any amount of money.

Your kids are essentially all adults, there'll be no question of assigned custody, they will choose who and when they wish to live with and spend time with.

Your current situation is toxic, anything would be better than it, it's in your control to change it.

I think you, as with far too many men, need to get the notion of leaving the family home out of your head. That is the dimmest thing a man can ever do - once you're out and paying rent somewhere else it's happy days for Her Majesty back in the comparative castle that is the family home. And, when it gets to court a judge will simply say, "Well, you can afford to pay €2000 per month rent do let's just keep things like this."

If, as is most common in Dublin in 2023, your wife is working fulltime outside the home, why in the name of God do you think she'll get to keep the family home?

It doesn't work like that - unless you move out.

Know your two family law principles. 1. Best interests of the kids (which could, given their ages, mean they choose you and your wife would have to leave).

2. "Proper provision" (one of you might get the house, but have to buy the other out.) (and many other idiosyncratic variants depending on how much equity is in the family home, etc.)

JACK BE NIMBLE

@[Deleted User] @Larbre34 Thanks to you both, super helpful, and just getting some feedback has been greatly helpful in not feeling so walled in. Alot to think about for now and some R&D to be done. Thanks again

Dial Hard

The most important thing for you is to get professional, impartial advice. There's an online contingent who'll tell you the house will be whipped off you forever if you so much as go out for a walk but that's not necessarily the case.

When my marriage ended (his choice, not mine) I walked away from the marital home, his extremely lucrative army pension, the works.

My now partner retained the family home by buying his ex-wife out. They have 50/50 custody of their (very) young children.

I know three female Boardsies paying spousal maintenance to their ex-husbands.

There are manifold reasons why separations *can* tend to favour the mother (you can thank outdated gender roles for that) but the family courts are far more aware of contemporary nuances than they used to be and it's far from a given that you, as the father and husband, will be automatically screwed these days.

Like I said, get a good family law solicitor pronto. I would also say both sides need to be as non-adverserial as possible and also, most importantly, realistic - neither of you is coming out of this with the same lifestyle you currently have. That's just a given. Accept that and you're both a HUGE way down the road to a somewhat amicable split.