The email that I got for a ban stated I had indulged in a personal attack, a second email said it ?

swoofer

I don't normally go down this route but I am totally dissatisfied with the explanations I have been given as to why I was banned. The first email I received that I opened on my phone stated I was banned for a personal attack on a mod. I immediately messaged the mod and before messaged was replied to got a second email saying ban was for back seat modding.

The thread was on satellite forums and related to new channels. That thread has now been closed to all.

The final answer I got was this " The only question for me is that if you did something that warranted a ban again it would be a longer one next time.""

Is this fair and reasonable??

No apology for the wrong email, no proper answer to my questions.

My initial post was entirely helpful.

I think the treatment I have received is shocking. I have been a member for years and helped numerous people.

swoofer

swoofer

Will I ever get a response or am I in the wrong section??

Spear

I presume the mod was icdg from looking at the thread. Have you discussed it with them yet, as the first step of DRP requires?

swoofer

Spear thanks for reply but read my initial post again(and don't take this up the wrong way) "  I immediately messaged the mod and before messaged was replied to got a second email saying ban was for back seat modding."

Then

The final answer I got was this " The only question for me is that if you did something that warranted a ban again it would be a longer one next time.""

All this was via DM 's there are other bits as well.

The thing is I have been a member here for over 21 years and specialise in Sats. I have helped hundreds of people down the years and got help.

I don't think I have ever got a warning. The replies I got to my DM's are unreal, and this is from a MOD!! Simple questions asking for further guidance/explanation ignored.

And of course the last bit " The only question for me is that if you did something that warranted a ban again it would be a longer one next time.""

I have never had to use a dispute process before and if it has no useful end result then so be it. In all honesty I don't need boards and boards don't need me.

All I wanted to know was, where is the guidance about back seat modding, why did I get an email saying my post was a personal attack, what is modutils, why did I not get an email to say ban was lifted. the MOD could have easily messaged me and asked to delete post.

From the above you will get my drift that all is not right. Hence my concern.

The simple question is "Why would a mod behave in such a fashion to a member of 21 years?2 Put yourself in my shoes, I am watching TV and get an email on my phone that starts "You have been banned for a personal attack..."

I rest my case.

You realize that the likelihood of me continuing to post on sats/boards is slim to nil knowing there is a MOD hovering waiting to pounce.

By the way the replies prompted from the MOD me to ask " Do you own the board? .

Finally, if you can give me a few pointers to where to read up on back seat modding. what is mdoutils and is there any furtrher explanation on the dispute process actually works. For example can you see my DM's, can you get access to the actual bit I posted, who can see this part of the board.

And finally if I ask to be removed from the board will all my posts in threads be wiped as well?

swooofeR

Spear

It's not my place to judge this one, the cmod for Tech will do that.

@MiCr0 If you could please review.

Spear

Micr0 has confirmed he's not available, so that means it goes to admins instead.

awec

Hi @swoofer ,

You are not showing as banned from the Satellite forum right now, and I don't see any warnings on your account. I am assuming whatever ban you received has already expired.

I don't see anything to dispute here since the ban has already expired. Moving this to Help Desk, as it's not a DRP.

awec

Also, @swoofer what exactly are you looking for here? Clarification from @icdg as to why you were banned?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569047#Comment_120569047

Can I provide feedback here. This is general feedback and nothing against you.

your reply that the ban has expired so no issue and let’s move on seems to be a standard enough reply. On the face of it it seems fine but I have seen instances where this is then thrown back in the face of a poster in the form of you thread banned x number of years ago, you didn’t dispute it.

swoofer

My dispute is I got the wrong email, this has not been explained. I asked where can I find guidance on back seat modding, nothing provided, I asked why did I not get treated with a bit of respect and sent a dm to say post was not correct.

And all I got was a THREAT that the next ban would be for longer.

That is what the dispute is about.

The solution, an apology and the ban totally rescinded. 21 years is a mighty long time.

And I don't think you are reading my post.

What is not clear in what I have written.

To repeat I was watching TV and got an email that started " You have been banned for a personal attack" I dispute that that email should have ever been sent in the first place.

Can you explain why this is been moved to the helpdesk?

And is there any guidance re the questions I have asked?

And by the way if you have a MOD who is issuing bans willy nilly and then has not got the decency to admit they were wrong then that's not good practice.

swoofer

Is this just a dumping ground and I will never hear anything again??

I am in dispute with a MOD who sent an email that stated " You have been banned for a personal attack!!"

Can someone just come back and say that the DRP is a total waste of time and we can all move on?

Is there any other avenue available where I can raise a formal complaint?

Is it true my issue was referred to a person who has not been on here for years!!

Mickeroo

I had a look at the thread in question and as far as I can tell this is what happened.

Wrong email sounds like they selected the incorrect reason for the ban, then righted their mistake when the second one was sent for backseat modding.

Backseat modding is a site wide rule so it's a no no in every forum on the site. Discussing moderation on a thread is also considered backseat moderation.

This is the title of the thread you were posting in: New Channels [NO DISCUSSION -NAME / FREQUENCY/ LCN / LAUNCH DATE ONLY]

It's stated in the title that posts should only contain NAME / FREQUENCY/ LCN / LAUNCH DATE and there is to be NO DISCUSSION outside of that. Your post did not conform to these rules to begin from what I can see.

The mod posted this warning:

I need to give another warning about discussion on this thread - please keep it to channel label, tuning details, Sky and Freesat LCNs please. Plenty of other threads to discuss hardware (and after a month I’ve quite a bit to say on the Freesat hardware myself, but this isn’t the place for it).

People continued to ignore it, yourself included, and got banned.Also, I can see no less than 5 further warnings from the mod on thread after the one I've quoted above before you posted.

There's a load of mod warnings on that page and people just straight up ignoring them so I'm not really surprised you weren't given any leeway.

I presume your post was meant to be helpful to point out that no chat was allowed in the thread. Which in itself breaches the thread rule on only posting NAME / FREQUENCY/ LCN / LAUNCH DATE. In isolation your post isn't particularly egregious, but there was a lot of posters just straight up ignoring or borderline taking the piss out of the mod so in that context I can see why they treated you the same as every other poster that got banned.

We can't do much about the ban now since it was only 48 hours long. What else are you looking for here exactly?

swoofer

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply and give answers. I have read back a few pages through that thread and the penny has dropped why posts that were not proper to the thread were being made. They were aimed at the mod and the bait was taken.

My point was the mod did not even say sorry for sending out the wrong disgusting email!! And when approached replied in an aggressive manner.

To recap " The final answer I got was this " The only question for me is that if you did something that warranted a ban again it would be a longer one next time.""

Is this fair and reasonable??

No apology for the wrong email, no proper answer to my questions.

My initial post was entirely helpful.

I think the treatment I have received is shocking. I have been a member for 21 years and helped numerous people. "

To say I am disgusted is an understatement and if admin or helpdesk cant see why then that is even more disgusting. Having a thread moderated by a mod who wants to dish out warnings and bans with no explanation and does not even have the courage to say sorry I made a mistake is not the way a forum thread should be moderated. That MOD should be thoroughly ashamed of himself. People should be treated with fairness, courtesy and dignity.

I noticed that the thread has now been closed. I don't know who controls mods but if it was me I would make that MOD re-open the thread and issue me with a public apology and the ban rescinded.

If this thread has broke any rules just message me first.

Finally my point is I should not have been sent that email stating " YOU HAVE BEEN BANNED FOR A PERSONAL ATTACK" That was a blatant lie and I should get a full apology. Not threatened with a longer ban. If the ban was placed to get a reaction well here it is.

I hope the above explains my point. The chances of me ever posting on here again are zilch if nothing is done.

Mickeroo

The wrong email being sent out is a clerical error at worst, I don't see why you need an apology for that. It's an automated email, there's nothing personal about it. It happens.

Below is an image of the drop down where you select the reason for a ban from, Backseat Moderation and Personal Abuse are right next to each other. I'm not going to publicly admonish someone for clicking the wrong one and I can't make them give a public apology to you even if I wanted to.

And regardless of the intention of your post, these three warnings were posted on thread by the moderator in the lead up to it.

Galtee boy take a 48 hour ban, Zorro2566 take a one week ban and a final warning, next time it’s permanent.

Im going to keep doing this until people start getting the message.

Right, we’ll try that again, I though category bans carried through to forums but apparently not, so those banned yesterday have been given 1 day forum bans in satellite taking into account yesterday.

48 hour ban for Mr Gooey

How many times do I have to do this?

It's clear the moderator was frustrated at this point from the blatantly out of order carry on of other posters on the thread, and you got caught in the crossfire somewhat. I do see why you might feel the ban was harsh but I also understand where the mod was coming from in taking a zero tolerance approach to every off topic post in the thread at that point.

Big Bag of Chips

**This post was cross-posted with @Mickeroo post above**

The only question for me is that if you did something that warranted a ban again it would be a longer one next time.""

Is this fair and reasonable??

Yes.

Warnings and bans across the site are incremental. You received a ban after numerous onthread warnings, and bans. You knew what was required and what was not allowed. You posted in a manner not acceptable in that particular thread. The moderator followed through on his warning. He was consistent with all posters.

I'm not sure why you need a public apology for a private message that was sent to only you. Nobody else was involved. A public apology will be of no consequence to anyone else. It seems in your effort to prove a point you are demanding a public apology because, as you say yourself the moderator should feel "thoroughly ashamed".

The moderator made his position very clear in that thread. Multiple times.

The moderator does not need to reopen the thread in the circumstances. His closing post is very clear. There was 1 rule in that thread. A rule that the regular posters had asked for. Multiple people were unable to follow it. The thread became derailed with over and back. Rather than having to continue to hand out warnings and bans for continually breaching the rules, the thread was closed with the option open to any poster to start their own thread when a new channel is launched. It sounds reasonable to me.

Edit: It's been a while since I had to forum ban someone. I can't recall the exact options to select. Can you PM me a screenshot of the email you received. I'm not sure if it was text entered manually by the moderator or the only option available in a drop down list. It may have been an administrative error. It may have been the closest option available. The post you were banned for was directed at another poster (therefore "personal"). If I could see the exact wording/format of the message it would make it clearer.

swoofer

Thanks for replies, I don't want to labour the point much longer but at least I got a reply and questions answered. When I got the email warning and what I consider very poor replies from the MOD I grouped all the emails from boards ie together and deleted the lot. To be honest the way I was treated was not nice and I decided there and then that I would finish with boards for good. But the dm's from the mod were very poor so I decided to fight my corner and give my point of view.

The thing is this, I was helping the mod, they can easily see my details, 21 one years is a long time. That mod banned me without a thought i.e they could not care less. The correct way would have been a DM and I could have deleted the post. It was that simple. In 21 years I have never had a ban from any board never mind this one. And my post that I was banned for was in fact a helpful one , as it was noticeable a bit of teasing was going on.in other words I was having the mods back.

The email started " You have been banned for a personal attack", it said personal attack not abuse.

I know nothing will happen to the MOD but at least quite a few people are now aware and may be useful for the future.

Big bag they did not even attempt to say sorry. And I am gutted I did not keep the email but it was on my phone and others sometimes see it so I did not want the hassle of explaining why I had got such an email.

To finish once and for all I know what the MOD did was wrong, ye all know what the mod did was wrong but I am the one who was banned for being helpful.

I was called away but I have to take issue with the bit " The only question for me is that if you did something that warranted a ban again it would be a longer one next time.""

Is this fair and reasonable??

Yes.

That is not correct I have an exemplary record of 21 years, why should a MOD issue a threat when I am querying a ban that should not have been issued. If you read my post it was helpful to the mod, back seat modding is when in a discussion a mods thread is expanded on by a poster AND is unhelpful.

Whoever is in charge of the MOD should give an honest assessment not spend the whole time defending the mod. A clerical error is one of the worst excuses ever and very poor.

If the ban stays I will never post on this board again.

Big Bag of Chips

Whatever you think about your post being helpful it was in fact off topic. It went against the very very very basic rule of that thread. All other posters who posted off-topic were banned. Had you been given special treatment for "helping the mod" then other posters would have had a legitimate complaint that they were banned when another poster wasn't.

Whoever is in charge of the MOD should give an honest assessment not spend the whole time defending the mod. A clerical error is one of the worst excuses ever and very poor.

You have been given an honest assessment. By 2 Admins, independently. We cross-posted so neither was aware of what the other had posted, and both posts are pretty much saying exactly the same thing. A clerical error is a very very legitimate reason for something being sent in error. I've done it myself. More than once.

The mod was not issuing a threat. They were explaining the site-wide policy. Bans are incremental. You were forum banned for 48 hours for doing something that the moderator clearly outlined would lead to a 48 hour ban. If you have an exemplary record then you are unlikely to fall foul of any site rules in future. You made a mistake with this one. You thought you were being helpful but you got it wrong in this particular instance. Had you originally admitted posting in the thread in error you might have had a more favourable response from the moderator.

The email started " You have been banned for a personal attack", it said personal attack not abuse.

That would be unusual as the drop down list Mickeroo screenshot above shows "Personal Abuse" as the option. Ban emails are automated (moderators do not have access to email addresses) so to have the words "Personal Attack" in it sounds wrong. It's a shame you no longer have a copy of it.

back seat modding is when in a discussion a mods thread is expanded on by a poster AND is unhelpful.

No it's not. Backseat modding covers a lot more than that.

I hope you do not leave the site permanently, as you say 21 years with an exemplary record is a very long time. But I understand you feel very strongly about the issue. However, in these particular circumstances the 48 hour ban was warranted. The ban has now expired and is not recorded on your account (possibly because of your previous exemplary record). It cannot be rescinded because it no longer exists.