Jordan Neely killed by chokehold on subway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572022#Comment_120572022

People on the video can be heard telling Billy Big Bollocks that he was going to kill him, yet he persisted.

Whatever threat existed had been subdued yet BBB carried on with the chokehold, hence it being ruled a homicide.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572091#Comment_120572091

Maybe you missed this article where it is said he was indeed threatening. These are the articles that don't fit with your agenda, so you don't link them. Neely was aggressive, was shouting at people and said he didn't care if he died. I'm sure it was a pleasant journey for all concerned. Another black guy helped hold him down. Maybe he will be thrown into jail too as an accessory.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572108#Comment_120572108

Can you post the video (singular?)

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572129#Comment_120572129

Maybe you missed this article where it is said he was indeed threatening. These are the articles that don't fit with your agenda, so you don't link them.

You have a very high and sophisticated opinion of me but no I didn't go digging around for the first article that said he wasn't violent, I clicked on the first story I heard about the killing. And it said Neely had not become violent and had not been threatening anyone in particular.

This article you linked to Didn't even exist at the time of OP. I beat it by 12 hours 20 minutes (05-05-2023 10:52am vs May 5, 2023 at 11:12 pm). Maybe that's why I didn't link it, not some conniving agenda?

Not that I place much stock in what the attorney for the killer says.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572189#Comment_120572189

You're still posting in the thread, so it would make sense to check for updates for your own thread I would think.

"Neely had not become violent and had not been threatening to anyone in particular" is very selective and fluffy language. Other passenger reports in articles say he was violent and threatening. The guy who recorded the video is reported to have said the choke hold was 7 minutes and also 15 minutes. Of course the 15 minute time became the default one to use here, but the 7 minutes makes way more sense considering length of time between subway stops and the high number of police presence in and around subway stations in NYC.

You have posted a number of similar threads where a black person is allegedly killed by a white person. I haven't seen you post a thread where the reverse is true despite how frequently it happens. Any wonder why other posters are calling you out for your agenda posting? I'll wait for actual evidence before commenting again, as we otherwise have little but speculation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572285#Comment_120572285

Completely agree.

Selectively choosing which massacre to care about suggests something other than objectivity is at play. If this were the first thread from the OP, I wouldn't mind. But given we've been exposed to a blizzard of similar threads, all of which have been posted in a short space of time, none of which contradict the narrative that aligns with the OP, it seems to me that nothing other than bias is at play.

Furthermore, there are many other massacres that could have been considered. Take, for example, the awful case of transgender Audrey Hale who, just a few short weeks ago, shot up a school - killing 6 people. The OP didn't report on this massacre because the assailant in this case doesn't match the criteria that they believe worth reporting on.

If we're going to be consistent, then we should be alarmed by all mass shootings and violent deaths in the US, and not cherry-pick those that attend to a certain narrative. The same must go for deaths such as Jordan Neely. Instead of cherry picking which deaths to consider from a political vantage point, we should consider all such attacks - regardless of the colour of the assailant's skin.

Perhaps we should listen to Dr King when he said that what matters is the content of one's character, not the colour of one's skin.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572285#Comment_120572285

You have posted a number of similar threads where a black person is allegedly killed by a white person. I haven't seen you post a thread where the reverse is true despite how frequently it happens.

That must be selective reading by you, then.

If it happens frequently and you feel it is underdiscussed, I haven't inhibited your ability to produce a thread about it. Yet you continue to post it as whataboutery here.

You're still posting in the thread, so it would make sense to check for updates for your own thread I would think.

That's the fun of starting a thread: other people can contribute. It's not a requirement that all posts simply be trolling. Other people, besides the OP, can add information they learn, as they learn it, without egos or anything, as I've done in threads started by others (even ones here explicitly mentioned as a whatboutism)

Other passenger reports in articles say he was violent and threatening.

Source? What are the specifics of the alleged violence and threats?

I haven't mentioned the chokehold time at all, other than 45 seconds that were alleged to have passed between Neely passing out, and the Marine letting go of him, in between that 45 seconds of time passengers called on the Marine to relent because he might kill him (which he did).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572144#Comment_120572144

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12051875/Video-shows-Marine-veteran-Daniel-Penny-ignoring-warnings-restraining-Jordan-Neely.html

Around 2:15 of the video the chap in the background explains that his wife is ex-military and that Neely defecating himself was a bad sign. "You're gonna kill him now".

Penny continued the hold for another 45 seconds.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572337#Comment_120572337

Yeah passengers so terrified of him you see a woman just waltz right up to his backside to get a better look at what's happening like it was just evening entertainment.

I again ask those users who claimed to have read interviews from passengers who said he was violent, to produce that evidence.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571831#Comment_120571831

The video shows a police car driving, slowly into a crowd.

How many people were murdered there?

How many mass murders did the police commit in the past year?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571103#Comment_120571103

take a deep breath at the end of the video

That was more than likely his lungs expelling whatever air was in there, a involuntary reflex.

After 15 minutes of restricted air intake or choking, his brain would have started to shutdown a long time before that.

His organs would have subsequently started to fail and in all likelihood the contents of his bowels would have been evacuated. An absolute terrifying and excruciating death.

15 minutes of restricted air is probably at least 5 times longer than it takes to cause irreversible brain damage.

The killer needs to get a new legal team, because the statement they put out is not going to help him, this was neither a case of a "tragic accident" or "self defence" under State Laws.

There is a clear Murder 1 charge if the DA are brave enough, but I imagine it will be plea bargained down to something else if the Lawyers have their clients best interests at heart and are not just after publicity.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571933#Comment_120571933

You didn't answer the question.

Do you care about vulnerable women on New York's subway? Easy to preach about the safety of others from your bedroom in some leafy Irish suburb.

Also, you and Overheal ignored the fact that Neely had an outstanding warrant for his arrest for the crime of seriously assaulting a 61-year-old woman.

It seems that doesn't matter to ye, as you are prepared to get on your soapbox and preach about 'Da POLICE!!!!'

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571982#Comment_120571982

Where the website is hosted doesn't matter, in fairness.

We all know you have an interest in pushing American-style culture war nonsense on boards.ie. Boards.ie is a predominately Irish website, so I don't understand why random tidbits of American culture wars have to do with Ireland.

Weren't you pushing a conspiracy theory the other week?

I don't know what has happened to you tbh. You used to be a somewhat level-headed poster in years gone by but in the past few years, you have jumped the shark. Or maybe that is where American discourses online are now. I've noticed it with a few American friends of mine. Most Irish people I know don't give a shite, and rightly so.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573284#Comment_120573284

There is a clear Murder 1 charge if the DA are brave enough, but I imagine it will be plea bargained down to something else if the Lawyers have their clients best interests at heart and are not just after publicity.

No, never a murder charge.

The best they can do is Manslaughter. Murder has to prove intent and malice, as in he intended to kill him.

The fact that other passengers helped restrain Neely is a testament to the fact that Neely was acting at best erratically and at worst violently towards other passengers on the train. Add his rap sheet, his outstanding warrant, and his history of physical violence.

This is a very hard case for the DA, as it will have to go to a Jury of fellow New Yorkers who will have to unanimously convict him on something. If the DA overreaches, they will never get a conviction. I can see a lesser charge being more successful.

However, people are not even talking about the real issue, that is the state and city of NY failing both parties here.

People should have the right to ride the subway feeling safe and Neely should have been offered the help he needed to overcome what ever mental illness he was battling with. But the powers that be, who are responsible for these services wont really want to talk about that core issue.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573325#Comment_120573325

Murder has to prove intent and malice, as in he intended to kill him.

Not for Murder 1 in New York, I didn't make it up, it's not my opinion it's the actual law. I wouldn't have stated it otherwise.

NY Penal Law § 125.27: Murder in the first degree

Caused the death of another person under the conditions that showed that you had a depraved indifference for human life

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573288#Comment_120573288

Yes. what is the relevance of that? There has been no neutering of the police which was your original assertion and what I was disagreeing with. It is a made-up fantasy, though one the police themselves often push. Outside of that I haven't "preached" about anything.

I'm not ignoring that he had a warrant, it has no relevance to whether members of the public can murder him.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573288#Comment_120573288

Are you trying to say dumbo marine knew about his warrant or something?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573350#Comment_120573350

You linked to something that proves my point perfectly.

• showed that you had a depraved indifference for human life

Good luck proving that in a court of law with a jury of fellow New Yorkers, many of whom ride the subway and know what it's like to be confronted with unpredictable random people with an ever-looming threat of violence.

The DA has a much better chance of an actual conviction if they go for a lesser charge.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573422#Comment_120573422

Of course its relevant, as many New York women have stopped riding the subway because they view it as too dangerous.

So, if you care about women, surely you should ask as to 'why' and what can be done about it?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573498#Comment_120573498

Not at all, but it gives context to the type of person that was being dealt with by fellow passengers. Penny didn't just jump up and attack a random man minding his own business, there was some altercation that led up to the actual incident.

I'll repeat, not one but two people helped Daniel Penny restrain Neely. Are they accessories to murder? One of them was a black man, afaik...

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573535#Comment_120573535

Well no your point was it can't be murder one if there was no intent.

I pointed out to you that it can by informing you of the law, now you have just hilariously moved the goal posts to New Yorkers would never convict because they ride the subway, something, something.

As for "depraved indifference", choking someone for 15 minutes whilst being told while doing it you are going to kill him is what exactly?

🤷‍♀️

Boards.ie: Mike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571949#Comment_120571949

It is a Canadian server.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573561#Comment_120573561

😂

lol

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573539#Comment_120573539

Yes I think something should be done about it.

Empowering vigilantism will not help it and the danger on the subway has zero to do with any "neutering of the police" as you claimed, because that has not happened. The only thing I have argued with you is that your assertion that the police have been neutered is made up, because it is.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573557#Comment_120573557

Depraved indifference, good luck with that Boggle 'DA'.

There won't be a murder 1 change here and they will never get a conviction.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573535#Comment_120573535

You linked to something that proves my point perfectly.

Your original assertion was "Murder has to prove intent and malice, as in he intended to kill him."

The NY penal law categorically does not say this, I have no idea how you think that proves your point perfectly.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573578#Comment_120573578

God you are very sure for someone who had no clue about the law up until I told you about it. Maybe the DA have been neutered along with the police? 😂

Anyway I stated if the DA were brave. A homeless schizophrenic with a criminal history won't be afforded appropriate justice IMO.

What I actually said was if the law firm he has employed has his best interests at heart, it will be plea deals and avoidance of a trial.

But it is America, even New York nothing would surprise me.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573557#Comment_120573557

Looking up the actual law..

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.27

§ 125.27 Murder in the first degree.

A person is guilty of murder in the first degree when:

1. With intent to cause the death of another person, 

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573583#Comment_120573583

See above, because it does.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573288#Comment_120573288

His violent history was mentioned in OP. A standing warrant is not why he was killed though that’s no gotcha moment. Nobody on the subway knew his rap sheet.