Cocaine Destroying Rural Ireland

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507253#Comment_122507253

We've established that you know nothing, which is why I was asking a different poster.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507363#Comment_122507363

Dont know about cocaine but talk around is that crack and gear go for 50 a gram.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508635#Comment_122508635

No experience with crack (and don't want any) but 50 a gram is ridiculously cheap. I'd be suspicious about the quality at that rate.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508635#Comment_122508635

By 'gear' do you mean heroin?

Large bottle small glass

"Initial preliminary estimates put the average daily consumption of cocaine to be in the order of 100 milligrams per 1,000 people per day"

"The European Union has undertaken an analysis of wastewater from a number of locations throughout Europe. The findings from 2023 show weekday mean values for Athens to be 137mg/1000people/day, Vilnius at 104mg/1000people/day, Helsinki at 189mg/1000people/day and Krakow at 65mg/1000people/day."

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/0813/1464723-cocaine-use-co-kildare-wastewater-analysis-europe-statistics/

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508699#Comment_122508699

That is what they call it, yes. Now these are prices I hear from addicts and that is a price if they can afford to buy full gram. Otherwise it is broken to 7-10 small bags which go for 10 a piece. I am no expert or anything it is just what I hear from people around. That price looks ridiculously cheap even to me but that is most likely what is driving the increase of use as while it look cheap at the start as soon as people get addicted they tend to never get enough of it.

Addiction problem is not to cut off supply as that is never going to happen and for every dealer or supplier taken off the street there are 2 new happily jumping in their place. Prohibition did not work for alcohol so it would not work for anything else either. Fear of punishment (even capital one in some countries) does not deter people as financial pull is way too strong. Addiction can only be sorted if it is supervised and if people who are struggling are offered alternative to what drugs provide for them when they are ready to make a change.

I never touched any of the class A drugs as they do not offer anything I may be interested in. Other stuff is pretty much of no interest to me either but I do understand addiction and what is driving people towards it so I know that current way of dealing with this probem is a battle where nobody can win.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511927#Comment_122511927

The problem with heroin is that you build up a tolerance quickly, meaning you need more and bigger doses to get the same high as before, and thus you get closer to the overdose point.

This is why I drug dealers give the first dose cheaply or even free and it;s these guys I'd argue are the ones that people are getting into debts with.

I know a lot of people who do a lot of drugs and seen a lot of pricelists with a lot of offers on Telegram groups, but I've seen anyone even offer heroin. Recereational users just don't touch it.

Quitelife

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/billy-keane-we-cannot-abandon-our-young-people-in-war-on-drugs-so-lets-give-gardai-the-resources-to-fight-this-epidemic/a1458455949.html

Not a fan of the Independent but Billy Keane writes a great article today about the negative impact in Kerry of drugs with parents and grand parents been attacked by drug dealers , behind a oay wall but well worth a read if one had todays paper or sub access

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514156#Comment_122514156

Now have you actually checked this one to see if it contains the word "cocaine" in it before you actually posted it?

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514237#Comment_122514237

cocaine - heroin- fentanyl, doesn’t matter to me they are all destroying families and communities , cocaine is definitely the biggest cause of issues around mental health , addiction treatments, drug beatings , suicides in our area not to mention scum of the earth driving round in flash cars from the plight of others

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514317#Comment_122514317

In other words, no; no you haven't.

And I've already pointed out that you don't care about rural communities because you're not prepared to consider the root causes turning people to said drugs, that you've accepted you know nothing drugs, and that you're just shitposting - and you haven't actually contested any of this.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514362#Comment_122514362

What are the root causes in rural Ireland then?

Why Is it different now to the heroine epidemic which scarred Dublin 40 years ago? What has changed that makes this now a countrywide phenomenon?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514423#Comment_122514423

Well, I haven't lived in Ireland for 15 years and I've never lived in rural Ireland - so I'm not really in a position to say, but until these causes are identified linking to news headlines with no meaningful commentary is, as I said, shitposting.

For me, my mental health issues were caused by boredom, living in a repititive socially conservative environment (by socially conservative, I mean everything revolving around sport, soap operas and pubs) - but if you tried and bring this up, people shot you down in seconds. I tried to get people to do things like hiking, paintball and a few others things, but people were only interested in drinking (which is just abusing a legal drug - and yet no one sees that as an issue. Odd….)

Dublin 40 years ago was a massively different place than rural Ireland now - a lot of the city was in economic depression.

Now whether any of this is relevant to modern day rural ireland, I have no idea - which is why I was asking the poster - but I'm pretty sure he was no idea either and no interest in finding out.

Getting addicted to a drug, but it legal or illegal is a symtom of a deeper cause of a more serious underlying issue.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504050#Comment_122504050

I asked a fairly regular weekend user yesterday, she said she pays 70 euro a gram (Dublin). A poster on Boards a while ago (think it was the Gangland Shootings thread), said the Gardai value the same amount at 100 euro.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514317#Comment_122514317

You gave me the names of 4 rural communities that were "destroyed by cocaine", a quick google search didn't back up your claim. In post # 852 you said "I know nothing about it (cocaine)", now you're saying "cocaine is DEFINITELY the biggest cause of issues around mental health", are you an expert on the latter? If you're resentful about scum of the earth driving flash cars, does that mean you favour a change in the law regarding coke and try eliminate or reduce these people from this lucrative trade?

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514156#Comment_122514156

"Let's give the gardai more resources to tackle this epidemic" if the headline is anything to go by then I don't think it's a great article. How many billions or trillions did USA spend stopping this "epidemic" and failed, what chance have we got? Epidemic? Dictionary.com defines it as a disease that is widespread. It's not, a minority of people enjoy using it and an even smaller amount of people have problems with it.

L Grey

Cocaine use, crazy how common-place it is.

A friend of mine was in his local when lads came in after at local GAA meetup.

After a few pints out comes the powder and the lads were not-so-covertly taking sniffs.

Same thing with a work do I was at.

All very casual and accepted now.

I try not to be around people when they're taking it, such an obnoxious drug.

The arrogant ultra-confidence followed quickly by the emotional **** talk.

lumphammer2

What I notice is the blatancy of it all ….. smalltime drug dealers deal cocaine on trains, buses, in front of shops, in restaurants and pubs …. they don't even try to hide it and no one takes notice …. that is the problem ….

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122515544#Comment_122515544

so, will his next post be a logical and informed response to this or a trolly **** post of a news headline that has the word "drug" in it but not the word "cocaine"? My money's on the latter…

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514317#Comment_122514317

cocaine - heroin- fentanyl - alcohol , doesn’t matter to me they are all destroying families and communities , cocaine alcohol is definitely the biggest cause of issues around mental health , addiction treatments…

I fixed it for you.

Alcohol is by far the most common, the most damaging and the most abused addictive substance around. It is also considered to be the gateway drug for harder stuff. Smoking is not far off with damage it is causing.

You also forgot to add cannabis to your rather short and very selective list. Not every publican is driving flash car but I suppose they are also not that bad financially speaking.

cathodrays

I have a friend who is an addiction counsellor and she reckons that if drugs disappeared, many of societies problems would be solved. I think that's a silly point of view.

There's no doubt that drugs and alcohol are a big factor in physical and sexual assaults, presentations to A&E departments, muggings/burglaries to feed a habit but many of them actually have uses as medicines like morphine for severe pain and stimulants for adhd. It's also arguable that civilization would never have developed without alcohol.

Just looking at countries with a high rate of abstinence from the biggest legal drug (alcohol), they all seem to be in the Middle East and Africa, not exactly the most developed places.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520481#Comment_122520481

I drugs disappeared, the medical profession would be in crisis - and your friend sounds like another person who seems to think addiction and responsabile useage are the same thing.

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514423#Comment_122514423

the closure of so many garda stations in rural ireland in 2010/11 was a huge opportunity for drug dealers to start up or expand knowing there was no gardai to stop you selling drugs or intimidating anyone else who tried to stop you . All towns and villages had some drug users in the past but the closure of the garda station network allowed drug dealers to be more in the open offering cocaine to young people in pubs or on the street which many unfortunately have succumbed to fcuking up their lives in plenty cases

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122516284#Comment_122516284

You didn't "fix" anything. Cannabis, and to a lesser extent alcohol, are not in the same league as things like fentanyl.

greenpilot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520481#Comment_122520481

I'd take your friend's qualified and presumably, experienced, point of view over anyone else, as would most people. As usual with humans, it is only when kids arrive that logic sets in. I see one other poster here tried to claim that addiction and " responsibility of use " are two separate things, which is, of course, laughable.

A few sleepless months worrying about your son or daughter soon focuses the mind on that claim. Almost every addict I've met began their life of addiction claiming " but I use drugs responsibly".

You see it in every Rural Pharmacy in the country.

" 24 Nurophen plus please"

" what's it for"

" My mums period pains, she sent me down"

" She's 62, isn't she?"

Down to the next chemist in the next village.

" 24 Nurophen plus please"

" what's it for?"

"Back pain"

" There you go"

And on and on it goes. Multiple pharmacy's per week, every week. Just so you can responsibly get out of bed and get the kids out to school.

It's not just Cocaine. In fact we are on the cusp of a National Coedine epidemic which is much, much, much worse. Addicts are the only responsible users of drugs. That fact that a regular user of any drug is at the stage where they consider their usage to be "responsible" is practically the definition of the first stages of addiction.

If that happens to be a good description of anyone here, it's not too late to stop, especially if you have a family.

greenpilot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511927#Comment_122511927

"Addiction can only be sorted if it is supervised and if people who are struggling are offered alternative to what drugs provide for them when they are ready to make a change."

Absolutely 100% Correct. I'd add honesty to that too. Tell your partner and family. Support is needed as it is a mountain that cannot be climbed alone.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520654#Comment_122520654

I accept this as a contributing factor, but it's still not getting at the underlying causes. People are not doing drugs because there's less police around or because the dealers are finding it easier to operate. The dealers are taking advantage of a situation that already exists: work out what that is and no one will require their services.

The question wasn't why is cocaine more prominent, it's why are people getting addicted to it? (And by addicted, I mean where it becomes a problem: not the casual useage).

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520759#Comment_122520759

Really?

How many people are there regularly consuming alcohol compared to regular fentanyl users in your expert opinion?

But you are correct, they, mainly alcohol are not in the same league. It is much worse with regard to consumption and damage caused. Much worse.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523414#Comment_122523414

21883_AAI_ICC_GBD_Policy_Paper_v4_online.pdf

That gives an idea of the level of death annually attributable to alcohol: 4 deaths per day; or circa 1500/ year.

I remember trying to do an exercise to get my head around fentanyl epidemic in the USA; from my rough numbers if Ireland had an identical problem it would be circa 1200/annum.

Fentanyl issue in USA is horrendous and is worth reading up on, particularly in certain areas; but as bad as it is its still less than alcohol deaths per annum here.

Two hours well spent for anyhow convinced that even social alcohol drinking is harmless.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2ebY3WNejLNbK47emgjd1E?si=Hnp5LP3cRnSpc8hJhbjrNQ

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520844#Comment_122520844

Eh…? You making up **** again…??

There are responsible drug users everywhere - I'm one of them: I consume alcohol once or twice a week, weed two or three times a week, LSD or mushrooms once every couple of months and cocaine twice a year.

So question one: explain to me how consuming cocaine twice a year is "addicted"?

Also, you use the excellent example of painkillers. People get addicted to painkillers all the time - sure. But people use them responsibly as well, do they no?

So question two: Do you accept or reject the point that people can use painkillers and alcohol responsibly? Because if you reject it, then you debunk your own post. Accept and you prove me right.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523462#Comment_122523462

A habitual drug user describing themselves as responsible makes me think you have a rather narrow understanding of responsibility. You mean, I assume, personal health-wise only? Like, you don't OD or go around on a rape rampage while high? You're managing or accepting the damage to your brain, lungs, nose yada yada.

But in terms of societal responsibility there's a rather large difference which is difficult to ignore. There are of course personal dangers from any medicine and alcohol, but those are certainly not illegal. Your class A habit is fueling drug cartels, crime etc. How are you rationalizing that as being socially responsible?

patnor1011

There are examples throughout the world and history that supervised and legal use of any addictive substance does not end up with chaos or civilizational collapse. Heroin was at some point completely legal and mankind did not experience some catastrophic events with everyone getting high and killing each other. Netherland does have cannabis legalized for a very long time and we do not consider them a zombified nation where everyone is constantly stoned.

Crime associated with illegal addictive substances is a consequence of them being illegal in first place, while we happily overlook simple fact that there is much more crime happening around use of government sanctioned addictive substances like alcohol.

I understand that everyone who drink regularly does not think they are addicts because alcohol is state sanctioned intoxicant but people who drink regularly are no different form any other drug addicted users. They just picked up different poison than you.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520481#Comment_122520481

Whether alcohol contributed to civilization or not doesn't mean that it is needed to sustain that civilization afterwards.

Yes obviously there are uses for drugs in a medical setting and even if more strictly controlled some medication would be abused but a few people abusing drugs is a hell of a lot better than a huge amount of the population doing drugs and all the problems that causes and the trauma that gets passed down generation to generation.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523553#Comment_122523553

I wouldn't call it "habitual" - but same question: if someone consumes a drug on an occasional basis, doesn't OD or act like a jerk in public, enjoys themselves and the experience and never feels the NEED to do it - how does that make it "irrespeonsible"? How does it make it "habitual"?

I take you point about the cartels and frankly its one of the reasons I don't do it often, but twice a year and I'm not the one paying for it is hardly keeping cartels in business. The most common drugs I do are legally produced (I'm in Berlin) and that only leaves psychedlics, one of which does not have cartels and the other grows naturally in forests.

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122514156#Comment_122514156

I read this "great article" in the printed edition (library). He compares dealers to the Black and Tans? says cannabis is a dangerous and gateway drug. His final 3 short sentences are comedy gold. "The war can be won", more than one U.S. president said something similar. "Ireland is small and it's hard to hide a crime" Prisons are about a million times smaller with 24/7 security and we can't keep drugs out of those institutions. "We just need more resources" How much and from where? The Health budget, close a few hospitals? Education, shut down some schools? Increase taxes? with an election soon, I doubt it. As you said rural Garda stations have closed, Justice Dept also has a limited budget. Quality journalism, ha, but thanks for the post, it reminds me why I stopped buying newspapers. ,

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523459#Comment_122523459

There is really no need to compare Ireland with USA and think we are going to face some fentanyl epidemic. I would be more concerned about crack than fentanyl use.

According to latest stats there are approximately 36 alcohol related deaths vs 18 drugs related death per million (in the EU).

As for Ireland 4 people die a day attributable to alcohol vs 1 attributable to drugs. So that is 4 to 1 with one state sanctioned drug vs all of the other illegal drugs combined.

Sorry but there is no such thing as social or responsible drinking. These are constructs only to make state sanctioned addictive substance use to appear semi-normal.

You either drink, snort, inject, inhale or you don't.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523553#Comment_122523553

I am not the one you addressed your question but I can offer you my answer.

Q.

How are you rationalizing that as being socially responsible?

A.

The very same way everyone is rationalizing drinking alcohol which is known carcinogen so alcohol consumption can't be and isn't socially responsible. Mainly considering how many people drink alcohol VS minuscule percentage of society who consume other currently illegal drugs.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523648#Comment_122523648

If we go by known and well documented example there is simply minimum risk that

"a huge amount of the population doing drugs and all the problems that causes and the trauma that gets passed down generation to generation"

scenario is ever going to happen. I understand the fear of it but it seems to be just subjective thing not based on any evidence.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/599683/cannabis-usage-in-the-netherlands/#:~:text=Less%20than%20a%20quarter%20of,edible)%20in%20the%20last%20month.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523559#Comment_122523559

The years 1870 - 1914 are called 'The Great Binge', when everyone was off their chunk on legal, over-the-counter medications. It culminated in World War 1.

The Great Binge - Wikipedia

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524376#Comment_122524376

Oh, so nothing to do with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand or a complex network of treaties and alliances….?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524376#Comment_122524376

No. It did not culminated in WWI. It was not a cause of it in any way shape or form. It ended because of laws coming in effect which outlawed most of the substances.

And while they were legal even though there were some problems with certain percentage of people abusing them society was still functioning and life was normal. Pretty much the same situation as it is today except that East India Company was substituted by Mexican cartels and government lost control and taxable income.

CookingGuy

Most people are fine doing a few bumps on the weekend a few people can't handle it nothing to do with living in rural areas

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524425#Comment_122524425

And why did they make that network of treaties and alliances?

Largely because the three cousins of the ruling royal families of the time were off-chunk paranoid and hated each other. Their cabinets were greedy, off-chunk, paranoid, hated each other and their subjects were mostly just off-chunk.

King George V - Morphine and cocaine addict

Kaiser Willhelm II - Huge Morhpine and laudanum user from an early age

Tsar Nicholas II - Cocaine addict. Cocaine was called 'The Tsar of Drugs' in Russia.

I replied to a post above that stated

'There are examples throughout the world and history that supervised and legal use of any addictive substance does not end up with chaos or civilizational collapse'

Arguably, the free availablity of drugs and alcohol contributed to the first World War. In fact, if you were to view history through a lens of substance misusers and their influence on power and politics it would be a real revelation.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524479#Comment_122524479

Yeah... you're still miles away from establishing a connection there. Correlation is not causation.

You could just as easily say it aculminated in the Easter rising.

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523863#Comment_122523863

perhaps a small nuance on this is that there is at least some amount of fair trade alcohol, and perhaps even fair trade hash(eg small home grown etc) Not trying to apologise for the massive behemoths like Diageo who want us all addicted to their wares but there is a credible amount of commercially and socially reasonable alcohol use.

However, there is absolutely no fair trade or craft cocaine ,

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524579#Comment_122524579

And you say that the cause of World War 1 was due to a treaty network and the assassination of an archduke but that is still only a fraction of the picture, and is itself only correlation.

scottser

Apropos of nothing, Diageo are the mains sponsors of the 'Drink Aware' campaign. It's sole message is that alcohol is not addictive, is not destructive in and of itself and it is not the problem - the problem is you, the consumer. A very 'guns don't kill people' message. It's an extremely cynical way to protect their profits. The gambling industry is arguable far worse, but that's probably for another thread.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524650#Comment_122524650

It's a biit more than correlation if you know your history and you're not even defending your owm point at this stage.

Back on topic - drugs in modern Ireland not the causes of WW1.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524666#Comment_122524666

This id agree with, but are they.really saying alcohol is not addictive? (Honest question - not in Ireland, so don't lnow)

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524630#Comment_122524630

I think the level of alcohol that is harmless/socially acceptable is a lot lower that what the vast majority of people believe.

Habitual low level alcohol consumption (say 7 pints spread out over the week, be it 2-3 sitting or 7 sittings) will increase

*your cancer risk by between 4-10% per 10g of alcohol

*lead to increased baseline cortisol production(i.e. increased stress level) in the medium to long term

*decreased mood

Heavy drinking under the age of 25 leads to substantial increased risk of alcohol dependance in later life

I write as someone who loves alcohol, whether consumed socially, at home solo, with food etc etc. While it doesn't get a free pass it certainly gets an easy time when you examine the total harm in causes in society.

As to why cocaine is more popular; south American drug cartels saw Europe as an untapped wealthy market and strategically targeted it. Hence Europe in general is awash with cocaine and it is accessible almost anywhere and most areas of Europe have seen increased use and consumption.

The major issue I'd have with taking cocaine rather than say alcohol/prescription drugs is that with cocaine I putting my well being in the hands of a line of (unts from Colombia to my local supplier who could have added anything to it along the way. With regulated medicines/alcohol I know exactly what I'm getting.