Stephen Donnelly apparently driving with no motor tax for 8 months now

Potential-Monke

Sounds like deliberate forgetfulness tbh, I somehow manage to look at my windscreen more than once a month, even if it's just in passing. So people are admitting to "forgetting" and also not caring enough to check. Sounds about right. I assume ye also "forget" to indicate. The two usually go hand in hand.

200mg

ha so the deflection now is it's wife's car. I assume they are on an any driver policy. 😁

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664504#Comment_120664504

Why on earth do you think you would hear about that?

"TD pays for dinner while on a work trip and doesn't expense it" isn't exactly the headlines that papers are going for.

I've never not taxed my car, though I have spent money on work trips that I haven't expensed cause I'm lazy and unorganised at times.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675443#Comment_120675443

It is his wife's car and he has a Garda driver so he presumably rarely drives it.

Its a fuckup, and he should have done better but the desire to ascribe some kind of "feudal lord taking advantage of the peasants" angle to it is ridiculous.

200mg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675548#Comment_120675548

That's tripe to be fair it's well known they claim within a few € every time. Don't blame them we all would do it. Expenses are a perk like taking the long way to work for mileage. Or jobs that no one else can do apparently that still seem to not be filled. 😁

Podge_irl

Expenses aren't a perk, they are just a cost of doing business.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676226#Comment_120676226

Some expenses are just that....expenses. If I need tools for my job, I buy and expense them. Not a perk, just a necessity and a way not to go through management for what I need. I expense my lunch I pay for it daily and then claim up to a certain amount every day. That's a perk.

Politicians have plenty of perks and claim set amounts on food and travel/mileage which they would never actually spend in full and so therefore they profit, TAX FREE.

My son gets mileage for his job as a civil servant. He claims a mileage allowance and drives an EV. Thing is, there is no option for EV, only a 1 Litre petrol. This was mentioned to management and the advice from accounts was to use the 1 Litre petrol, as there is no EV option. So he claims the correct mileage rate, but profits because it's an EV he drives. He also gets internet and phone allowance, even though he has internet anyway and he is provided with a company phone. The system is full of waste like this and Politicians benefit greatly from these and many other unchecked allowances.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674878#Comment_120674878

Jesus that's some ivory tower your looking down your nose at everyone from, I'd love to be as perfect as you.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676333#Comment_120676333

Expenses are expenses. What you are describing are expenses which are standard in private and public sector.

Just because you have internet already doesn't mean that the company/government isn't benefiting from you having internet so a allowance for that is provided. Not all companies but some.

If politicians are submitting incorrect expenses that is a different conversation.

From government expenses guidelines: Mileage claims made in respect of journeys carried out in electric vehicles should use the rates applicable to engine capacity 1201cc-1500cc. Please see the above table.(https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/employee-expenses/travel-and-subsistence/civil-service-rates.aspx)

Your son is not profiting. These numbers are put together based on depreciation etc. Also the up front cost of an electric car is way above a 1ltr petrol. You can buy a 1ltr petrol for less than 10k, electric cars are starting at closer to 40k now

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676409#Comment_120676409

Expenses are indeed expenses. But perks are also perks. I am well aware of the difference, as I receive both in my private employment.

Tools are an expense. Why? Because I don't have personal use or need of these. They are necessary for me to do my work. I claim this back and see no personal gain, or loss.

Daily meal allowance is a perk. Why? Because while I do need to eat, this allowance doesn't need to be provided and is not provided to all employees, even those with similar roles to mine. I could easily bring my own food to work for much less money. There are fridges/freezers for storing food, as well as microwave ovens for heating food. The perk is, I can eat food freshly prepared on the spot in a canteen, or I can go to a restaurant/deli nearby and eat there.

My son is definitely profiting...it's not even his car 😂

But lets say it was his car. His travel is local. A 5k EV would easily cover his needs, no need to spend 40k on one. He drives around 50km per day. On the lower band, that's €21 per day on average, so €100 per week claimed allowance. For that week, he would use 50kWh of electricity. The car is charged on our relatively expensive night rate of 25c, so €12.50 on fuel per week. If we were to stretch that out over a year, say 48 weeks, it would look like this:

Assumed Distance = 50x5x48 = 12,000km

48 weeks x €100 = €4,800 Claimed

48 weeks x €12.50 fuel = €600

Wear & Tear ~ €200 (being generous)

Depreciation = €500 (again, being generous on a used Leaf)

Tax, Insurance, NCT = €1000 (Nowhere near this figure tbh)

Total spent = €2,300

4800 - 2300 = €2,500 profit.....Tax Free.

I strongly suspect a Politician would be seeing much larger numbers. They sure a hell wouldn't be forgetting to claim every cent they're "entitled" to, nor would any of us. Most us make sure our cars are taxed, insured and have an NCT disc displayed.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677109#Comment_120677109

You don't seem to understand the difference between expenses and perks. The mileage rates are based on the Revenue Commissioners analysis. I am sure if you ask they can provide the information behind the numbers. Also all details on expenses are available on the website and explanation of what can/can't be submitted.

If a person is employed and part of the job includes expenses then why wouldn't they claim them? Thread seems to be gone off track so leave you at it.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677267#Comment_120677267

You seem to be missing the basic point here. I don't need Revenue to tell me what is very easy to understand, but apparently also easy for others to misunderstand. While everything claimable is classed as an expense, that does not mean everything claimable is an expense. And even the claimable expenses can often leave the claimant much better off, as the claimed amount is not taxed and may be in excess of the true expense, such as the example I already gave you. The perk is being left better off.

Politicians can claim large sums of unvouched expenses.In the event their expenses are greater than the unvouched limit, they need only provide receipts and can claim the full amount. TDs can claim between €9,000 and €34,000 per year in unvouched travel and accommodation expenses. This is based off 120 days attendance at Leinster House. In fairness, some of the Dublin TDs didn't even claim the unvouched expenses. Donnelly wasn't one of them.

I won't try to insult your intelligence, but I'm sure you're aware the allowance is based on the mean cost, depreciation and running cost of a new vehicle of a certain engine size. It's not practical to consider every vehicle and every real world cost. So, as you have already put it, a 10 grand 1.1 Corsa won't cost much to run, but it will cost less than a brand new 3.0L 911 Carrera. You might know now that the Corsa driver will likely walk away with a few hundred spare thanks to the allowance, but the 911 driver will be paying a fortune to drive those expensed miles. This is why I said the cheap EV will leave the claimants bank balance fatter than the 10k Corsa.

To answer your question; a person should indeed claim expenses as they are entitled, but only if they are dispensed. Unvouched expenses are IMO asking for trouble. Your question is disingenuous to the point already made, which was Donnelly wouldn't be forgetting to claim his expenses, but seems to easily forget to pay his dues. The thread has not gone off track, but thank you for your efforts.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676333#Comment_120676333

No civil servant gets internet or phone allowances. There are no such allowances.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677494#Comment_120677494

My son does. So, there's that.

Internet, Phone, Electricity, Mileage...probably more I don't know about.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677543#Comment_120677543

No, he doesn’t, not if he’s a civil servant. Someone is either spoofing or confused, either about allowances or about the definition of a civil servant. All civil servant allowances are in the public domain. There are no civil servant allowances for internet, phone or electricity.

Some civil servants will have a mobile phone, depending on their grade and role.

Mileage only applies when public transport isn’t feasible.

These are facts. Unless of course, you like to share any reputable documentation?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677543#Comment_120677543

Internet, Phone, Electricity,

They're working from home allowances which are available to everyone

Podge_irl

Potentially unpopular opinion here, but I suspect for most TDs their out of pocket expenses end up being more than what they claim. Its a job that involves a lot of travel and functions and as someone who travels for work a couple times a month I often miss things that could be expensed. The "unvouched expenses" are just called a per diem for private sector and are fairly common.

Talking about expenses as if they are some perk on top of your salary and unique to politicians is stupid. My expenses come close enough to my salary most years but its not remotely a perk or extra salary, its just expenses I incurred to do my job.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677399#Comment_120677399

If someone is that desperate for money then let them off with the few hundred euros to be honest. It would cost revenue and the government a lot more trying to build a expenses system which would be specific to every driver. Plus all the complications with repairs etc which you admit yourself.

Expenses have nothing to do with a TD's personal car.

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677494#Comment_120677494

Agree with you, the only phone allowance is an on call allowance or out of hours and a lot of civil servants are provided with a work phone. A certain amount of civil servants are provided with a field computer and internet is paid for this type of work by the department they work in, as for car expenses there is different engine size bands of payment and travel has to authorised and signed off on and rates drop after a certain number of kilometres. The talk of making money is a joke barely covers the cost over the year.

UrbanFret

Probably do the same as everyone else. ie sold it to his wife to avoid paying the arrears.

200mg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677717#Comment_120677717

They can claim any outgoings back they will never be out of pocket. Unlike others the first amount is unvouched, Anything after that they need receipts. And I assure you if they ever even went on the bus they would keep the ticket stub.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678032#Comment_120678032

Exactly, you will be a long time trying to get rich from expenses as a civil servant.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677661#Comment_120677661

You’re referring to the tax credit, right? Not an allowance and as you say, not restricted to civil or public servants.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678065#Comment_120678065

They can’t “claim back any outgoings”. There are fixed subsistence allowances, depending on the hours away from home. There are fixed overnight rates in Ireland and in each European country.

200mg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678131#Comment_120678131

And that's after the first allowance is gone. You think they are then staying in the Hilton on their own dime I have a bridge to sell.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666653#Comment_120666653

I went to sell mine, advertised it as tax due in November because in my mind that's when it was due. Went out to take photos and realised it was out of date 8 months. Never happened again but it can happen. Donnelly is useless, stuff like his property he should be pinned to the wall over as it's actually part of his job, but this, it's a non story. He checked when it was reported and then paid it, non story.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120674878#Comment_120674878

I am very contentious about indicating and correct lane usage, if the two went hand in hand, 70% of drivers on Irish roads would have no tax.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675550#Comment_120675550

Mileage is paid as the shortest distance between work and where you have to go as part of work. You cannot take a long route. This is routinely checked in most places in the civil and public service.

200mg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678186#Comment_120678186

https://www.thejournal.ie/katherine-zappone-travel-expenses-2732813-Apr2016/

Was it changed after this ?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678206#Comment_120678206

TDs and Senators aren’t civil servants.