School resignations and recruitment problems, 2023-2024

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092434#Comment_121092434

Career breaks aren't really relevant overall. It doesn't matter if the teacher resigns permanently or takes a career break. The job will be advertised as a one year contract either way for the following year, and after that it will depend on whether the career break teacher comes back or not. That aside, schools can't get teachers to fill these positions regardless of how the job arises - particularly in Dublin.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092309#Comment_121092309

My gut feeling is that it would be hard to win that case, if the school is providing the hours to the child by allocating on the timetable, but can't get a teacher to fill the position, there isn't a whole lot they can do. The same could be argued for any mainstream position. That's not to be blasé about special needs, but there are shortages and no court case in the country is going to fix it if no one is willing to take the job because they can't afford to live in Dublin.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096625#Comment_121096625

Career breaks really aren't an issue. We got a couple of teachers back this year who wouldn't have come back to the school as soon if they hadn't a job to come back to. They'd have happily resigned either if they had been denied and would probably have still come back but we might have lost the continuity. It's not 2010, we'd just be driving teachers away and anywhere it's been tried they have left anyway but on poorer terms so just another push factor!

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092434#Comment_121092434

Yup permanent positions available and are going unfilled (look at education posts for Dublin). Subs brought in to cover the cracks and SEN teachers taken from small groups to cover large classes.

Career breaks are NOT the problem... as I said teachers who weren't even granted the career breaks up and left anyway.

noplacehere

Career breaks not the issue here either. Full time RPT positions went unfilled. Resignation or career break we can't fill the posts. Teachers have resigned and just gone off themselves but then we can't even get them when they get back so the school is now at the complete loss of the teacher two years later still with unqualified people holding the job when at least if the career break had been granted they could have slotted back in

Peter Flynt

The reason why teachers don't care if their career breaks are denied is quite simple. . . they know there's a job to walk into if they return due to the shortages.

Denying career breaks is just mean-spirited, counter-productive and nasty from idiotic principals which gains them nothing as no one is going to be forced to stay in a position against their will.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153226#Comment_121153226

Career breaks are great for teachers as they provide a risk free shot at trying something else, not so good for schools needing to replace them though. They aren't normal in any area outside of the public sector. I would imagine many would not leave if they had to come back and find a permanent job again.

I think a solution to the actual issue would be to use some of the 10-20% new builds currently allocated for social housing for essential workers (like teachers, nurses, guards etc) that need to live in the area. This would have the affect of solving the actual problem, teachers needing somewhere reasonably priced to live, it is a targeted approach. Many older teachers are living in properties they own, so blanket Dublin allowance would result in additional money for those who don't need it. Of course if unions want a Dublin allowance they could negotiate for that during pay talks.

gaiscioch

'Primary principals warn education system is on ‘verge of breaking’ as teacher supply issues bite'

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/11/17/primary-principals-warn-education-system-is-on-verge-of-breaking-as-teacher-supply-issues-bite/

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121380547#Comment_121380547

Maybe the INTO would consider industrial action?

Although principals aren't Into are they? Is it the IPPN?

byhookorbycrook

Blaming career breaks is a handy way to divert from the real issues of teacher supply . The DES media spin pushed this narrative, until it was pointed out that several politicians are themselves haven’t resigned their teaching posts , Minister Foley being one .

The truth is that many of those training as teachers simply decide not to pursue teaching as a career here . They don’t take career breaks , they go elsewhere . Terms and conditions here are simply not attractive, no matter what the likes of Pat Kenny would have people believe .

Dickie10

some schools have subs lining up for work in them and multiple teachersgoing for interview and being disapointed others in same towns in commuter belt have full time positions unfilled. i think theres definitley a lot of picking and choosing going on in some schools with regard to teachers going for jobs or even sub work. noticed that when subbing myself a few years ago , PMEs and subs had a path bet the door looking to get subbing and placement but talking to someone in a DEIS school in the town they couldnt get anyone, so probably the academic all girls school will never find it hard to fill jobs compared the DEIS school that comes with the reputation. I would think if a survey was done in Dublin areas starting Dublin 1 /2/3 etc the likes of Loreto on the Green wont have trouble finding teachers compared to others. In fairness why wouldnt a teacher look for jobs in those type of schools first, massively different to another type of school, absolute different job completely.

am_zarathustra

There's a stark enough divide between the Dublin area and the country. More teachers are from the country and girls schools in the country would be hiring former pupils a fair amount of the time or would have the option too. There might have been 10ish teachers eventually out of my year group, and that would replicated most years.

Schools in Dublin are more stratified too, the difference in an all girls convent and Deis ETB is not as stark in the country compared to the city. The job is very different in both, your completely right there, so a lot comes down to what you want from the job. I love the challenges of DEIS, there is enormous satisfaction in the job and huge variation. But its not for everyone.

I find in the city it comes down to the perception of staff a lot of the time, if a school has a reputation for being welcoming and staff being sound and it generally being well run, it will be fine. I know of a couple of localish, private schools struggling far more than us in our DEIS setting for staff because of their management. No harm in bad management being highlighted either, it is in most industries.

Dickie10

yeah definitley, middle class catholic girls wount be long running amok if management allows it, just i suppose they dont carry around the blatant behaviour issues or aggression that some other students from tough backgrounds will have and that can carry a poor management along for a long time. the school will still do ok off the back of good teachers and good, well reared kids going to it.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455829#Comment_121455829

To be fair, I have worked with all sectors of schoolgoers and the middle/upper middle class girls are the one demographic that I find impossible to manage. They would make Machiavelli look like a dunce in the way they can manipulate situations to their own advantage. Far more covert than a working class boy leaving a litany behind and storming out, but waaaaaay more dangerous.

iniscealtra

@Grueller Have to second that.

Dickie10

i suppose the only saving grace is their would seem to be a lot less of trouble rearing its head for the individual teacher day to day, but yeah when you get one going that direction its a minefield, rural all girls schools maybe less of that going on.