New build house rules - no pets

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120673286#Comment_120673286

Dog owners should pick up after their dogs, the amount of dog **** on the ground in parks etc gives a good indication that they don't. It seems a lot of Irish people's pet training is a kind of "unparenting", just let them do what they want. This is why they probably have blanket rules like the one in the contract.

If a dog is barking regularly, particularly at unsocial hours, it is causing a nuisance to the neighbours. Not everyone would be as enamored with your dog. It would be similar to a neighbour playing loud music or something like that, but at least with a person you can have a word about it. A dog might be left at home all day on it's own.

I don't live in a housing estate so I don't have to put up with any of that thankfully, if I did, I think the no dog type rule would be good personally.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685999#Comment_120685999

"Not everyone would be an enamored with your dog".

I don't have a dog.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705591#Comment_120705591

It was meant purely hypothetically to illustrate a point. I didn't intend "you/your" to refer to you specifically, I meant rather a person with a dog moving into an estate with these rules where dogs are not allowed (dogs would be the pet that the rules are targeting, with cats also to a lesser extent).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705615#Comment_120705615

The rule does not say dogs "are not allowed". It's a rule about pets causing an annoyance.

And I think the thread has shown that what constitutes an annoyance, is subjective.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705676#Comment_120705676

Yes, dogs would be the pet most likely to cause an annoyance, rather than say a goldfish or something like that. I think most people could agree on what causing an annoyance is, continuous barking and howling etc during the day and night. It would be similar to say someone setting up decks on a balcony in an apartment block and playing music, some people might enjoy it but for the majority of people it would damage their enjoyment of their property.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120705982#Comment_120705982

You will be told that there is nothing you can do about people playing music or their kids screaming and squealing, during the hours of daylight.

However dogs are fair game for the cranks, any time of the day or night.

Anyway, I have covered all this in my previous posts already, I see no need to rehash it all over again.

Bottom line, I would walk away from buying anywhere that had this kind of condition as part of the sale. It would be a dealbreaker for me.

OP, I hope you have come to a decision you're happy with.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706348#Comment_120706348

There is pretty much zero enforcement here if say someone is playing loud music in the middle of the night etc. There was a thread years ago about an apartment complex down near the 3Arena, decks out on the balcony every friday and saturday night, people trying to convince themselves that it wasn't a terrible idea to have bought in the complex etc.

There isn't a lot you can do about kids making noise, but apartments are made to house families including kids and they normally go asleep at night. Dogs are purely optional in a housing development. There is very little enforcement around breed of dog off a lead, dog fouling, dogs causing a nuisance etc that when building high density housing it is probably best to just avoid the problem altogether. I know there are regulations around all this, it is enforcement that is the problem, generally it is only those who work for the public sector who would have any sort of faith in the system.

@[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712742#Comment_120712742

Families can also include pets. Children cry at night. And as far as I'm aware, having children is also optional.

Like I said, what causes an annoyance is subjective.

...it is only those who work for the public sector who would have any sort of faith in the system.

Seeing as you are now reducing this to making passive aggressive jibs about those who work in the public sector, I will leave it there.

Maybe @[Deleted User] would be more interested in discussing enforcement of this condition on pet ownership on private owners with you, as they seemed pretty confident it can be enforced.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713616#Comment_120713616

Loueze there is no need to take the developers/OMCs ban on pets that cause annoyance so personally. At no point did the OP extended an offer for you to come live with them so I don't see it having a major impact on your life anytime soon.

I can understand why you are upset though with all the fine weather recently your neighbours must be having a great time which is probably adding to your frustrations.

Sure these type of rules can be enforced and ive seen these rules enforced. If you sign a contract that states you can't keep a pet that causes annoyance the OMC will enforce the contract if there are complaints. In most cases its a fine that ramps up the longer the infraction occurs. In most cases warnings will be issued first.

@HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714090#Comment_120714090

Thank you for confirming for @HerrKuehn that these rules are enforceable, and you've seen it done.

Hopefully, instead of attempting to ban pets, Ireland will soon follow the UK, and introduce legislation on placing unreasonable restrictions on pets in both rented, and now it seems, in privately owned property.

Thanks for your concern re my own neighbours - they have calmed down a bit, as I said they would. White noise.

All is good, and no OMC interferance here. :)

Mrs OBumble

Overseas, I know of entire suburbs where cats are banned, and with dog fouling being such an issue I can imagine they're not far behind. Hopefully Ireland will catch up.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713616#Comment_120713616

Apartments and houses are meant to house humans. Society would not function if everyone decided to not have children and instead decided to anthropomorphise dogs and treat then as ersatz children. What is "annoying" is not purely subjective, there are many things that the vast majority of people would agree is annoying, dog fouling left around common areas etc would be annoying for everyone other than the person who doesn't bother to pick it up.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714566#Comment_120714566

Irish people don't really do "following rules" and we don't really do enforcing them either. There is a real entitlement to decide to not follow rules, you will often hear otherwise law abiding people suggest "just don't tell the landlord about the dog" etc. So I wouldn't expect anything to be done about the amount of dog fouling. When I am out running I will say it to people if I see them walk off without picking up after the dog (I don't say anything if it is a woman on her own as it might be a bit intimidating). Another issue would be dogs off leads when they shouldn't be. There was one time a few months ago and someone had what looked like an american pit bull off the lead, unmuzzled and half growling at an older man who was out for a run. I said it to the couple who were out walking the dog and they were saying "ah he's grand", it was literally on the verge of attacking the older man who was very intimidated by it. They put him back on the lead, walked a bit and let it off again.

Thats great Loueze.

In fairness the developer wouldn't include the clause if most people didn't think it was reasonable. The developer won't be living there and won't have to deal with complaints for long as it will become an issue for the OMCs. Why would they include a clause that could hamper sales.

It unfortunate that we need these clauses but there are people who are incapable of looking after pets properly and they become an problem for everybody else.

I hope they don't force landlords to allow pets I've seen first hand the damage they can cause to a property. If they do allow pets deposits will have to be reviewed as tge current of x2 the rent wouldn't be enough for most landlords to consider it.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715114#Comment_120715114

I would disagree with this. The Irish are, in my experience, remarkably docile and compliant people. We may whine and act the maggot around little things, but in general, the Irish do what they're told and try to be the best boy or girl in the class.

As to the question of pets, my housemate (who, I will add for the sake of the above, was Russian, not Irish) in a previous rental owned a cat despite a rule in the rental contract prohibiting it. The landlord knew that she had a cat, but he never once raised it as an issue. I've known a few other people who did the same thing. I think that "no pets" is a rule that only enforced if there is a problem.

For my own part, I'd take a Rottweiler over poorly raised children of my neighbours any day!

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717163#Comment_120717163

Irish people generally don't complain, are generally non-confrontational but definitely don't bother following rules if it doesn't suit them. The park near where I live has a specific dog park area and the rest has a no dogs off the lead rule, most people have their dogs off the leads anyway. There have been suggestions on this thread already to just get a dog or whatever. It can also depend a lot on the socio-economic class of the person, in traditional working class areas people would be more likely to laugh at rules in my experience. It can happen anywhere though, and example would be knocksink woods in Enniskerry, there is a rule that dogs should not be off the lead as it is a nature reserve and there are ground nesting birds, most people have the dog off the lead. The same with Glendalough actually.

Would you take a Rottweiler as a neighbour if it was aggressive and they had it running around outside? What about if you have kids and they were playing outside?

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/pitbull-victim-dangerous-dog-laws-29574625

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717213#Comment_120717213

Hmm I'm not so sure. There is a no dogs off leashes policy in my local park here in Wexford and I've once seen anyone break that rule. Of course, that is my own experience.

With the Rottweiler example, I was being hyperbolic to make a point :). However, I'd take a Rottie over a Pitbull any day. They're lovely dogs in my opinion.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721099#Comment_120721099

In SCD it is very common, I am talking about a park in Shankill and Enniskerry, both actually fairly affluent areas. Glendalough is another one, no dogs off the lead as it is a nature conservation areas, very specifically mentioning nesting birds. Up on the Spinc walk, most people have their dogs off the lead, there are deer, goats and sheep up there with young, so it really isn't on. I have seen people with dogs off the lead up on the Djouce (private land) where the dog was actually chasing sheep, which as I am sure you know can cause them to abort the lamb if they are carrying. There was a very recent case up on the Zig Zags which has now resulted in it being closed to walkers because someone wanted to have their dog off the lead, even though no dogs are allowed on the mountain, he assaulted the farmer, now it is closed for everyone. There are a lot of entitled dog owners around SCD and Wicklow, I have no idea if the locals in Wexford are much more rule abiding.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/wicklow-district/zig-zag-route-in-glenmalure-closed-indefinitely-as-assaulted-landowner-overwhelmed-by-support/42399765.html

The mask always slips.

This thread has been turned into yet another anti-dog / dog owner bashing thread from people who clearly just do not like dogs. No matter where they are.

Which is exactly the reason why I wouldn't risk buying a property with such a clause on pet ownership attached to it.

Because if you were unlucky enough to buy beside someone like this, they'd look for some reason to complain and have your pet removed.

So, my original advice stands. OP, unless you have no other options, and if you want to have a dog / pet in the future, look for somewhere else.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724108#Comment_120724108

Owners can like dogs, and not want them in their rental property, the two are not mutually exclusive. No one forces you to buy in a MUD with a no-pets policy, but you are certainly limiting your choice by doing so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724463#Comment_120724463

This clause, and the OPs query, related specifically to a house purchase, not a rental agreement.

I understand that in rental properties, whether pets are allowed or not is at the discretion of the property owner.

There are lots of things that limit your choices when buying a property, and some of those things are dealbreakers. This would be one of mine.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724463#Comment_120724463

The “no one forces you” doesn’t really stand up in the current market, where people have very few options overall.

Rules like this are condemning many people in social housing and people with disabilities in supported housing to pet free living.

HerrKuehn

I have no problem with dogs, I have an issue with owners who don't follow the rules and who don't clean up after their dog. There is a significant proportion of owners like this who have a kind of entitlement mentality where the rules don't apply to them. So, we have a blanket ban in some developments, which seems reasonable to me. People can always live somewhere else, like a more rural area, rather than a dense development in an urban environment.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725739#Comment_120725739

Lots of people don’t have choices to live somewhere else.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725772#Comment_120725772

Having a pet is also a choice.

Just in relation to something you mentioned earlier, buyers, or renters who have disabilities that require a guide dog cannot be discriminated against by OMCs.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725817#Comment_120725817

A guide dog is not a pet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725739#Comment_120725739

There is no blanket ban.

How many times now has that been clarified?

Dav010

Delete

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725817#Comment_120725817

I wasn’t talking about guide dogs. I was talking about a generation of people with disabilities living in community settings who are debarred from the calming influence of pets.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726288#Comment_120726288

Indeed. Emotional support animals extends beyond guide dogs now.

Unfortunately, the laws on discriminating against guide dogs, does not extend to ESA.