Census 2022: 10% reduction in Roman Catholic numbers

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666003#Comment_120666003

Fair enough. I find listening to letters from the corinthians and watching people queue up for a snack of wafer to be beyond boring and tedious. That's without the priest going on a tangent because he finally had an audience to preach to. And then the hour long journey to the venue.

Half an hour humanist ceremony at the venue and straight into the pints wins hands down for me.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666194#Comment_120666194

IIRC that study only claimed that people who regularly attend a church service have higher life expectancy than those who don't.

But those who don't attend includes the hospitalised, housebound, etc. who are significantly more unhealthy than other people their age.

In other news, a study demonstrates that water is wet

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666231#Comment_120666231

and...?

My civil wedding ceremony lasted nothing like 20 minutes, even including the songs

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666305#Comment_120666305

Well they were trying to recruit you so of course they did. Religions are desperate for fresh meat, especially young adults as by that time most who grew up in the religion have left it.

In cults it's called "love bombing" and really the only difference between a religion and a cult is size and time.

Fortunately or unfortunately the 1960s/70s California-style cults that used sexual seduction to attract victims recruits never took off here

As for "negligible influence on their lives" when your kid is victimised / othered in school for not being Catholic that certainly is a non-negligible influence on your life.

Like I said already, nobody would give a stuff about religion in the census if we had secular health and education systems like all other developed countries do.

.Donegal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667129#Comment_120667129

One thing I’ve noticed lately from my age bracket and slightly younger is that the Extreme North American evangelical take on Christianity is increasing popular amongst younger people who are religious due to them having organisations over here one of which goes in to catholic schools to recruit.

My sister knows of some people personally who got mixed up it and it’s very extreme,cult like and a completely different take on things to even my grandparents generation( I wouldn’t even class it as catholicism but they claim to be) I expect Catholicism to continually decrease in Ireland but I wouldn’t be surprised if that extreme version I just mentioned becomes more popular amongst the religious here in to the future.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666003#Comment_120666003

Don't know how you found this. Been to a few of them and they're so quick that you dont get time to get bored. 20-30 minutes.

Last one was great as the couple clearly put effort into the tasks set by the ceremony master. They had funny things about what they like and dislike about each other and also what they mean to each other.

All lighthearted and sincere and I think everyone enjoyed it.

Much better to listing to bible readings that no one cares about and pretending that you care about god.

Church weddings are basically all the same whilst a humanist ceremony is designed by the couple which is the way it should be.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667074#Comment_120667074

This isn't just one specific study that can easily be discounted. This is something that has been shown repeatedly, in many different countries. I'm not religious myself so I don't have any vested interest in this being true.

JohnJoFitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666682#Comment_120666682

I'll be ticking the box for Yes again in the next Census. You don't get to decide the criteria for it much as you would like to.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667625#Comment_120667625

Will you attend mass (outside of weddings, funerals, confirmunions) before the next census?

JohnJoFitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667649#Comment_120667649

Highly unlikely. Maybe the odd Christening too.

BaywatchHQ

I've posted this before but I would like to remind people in this suitable anti Catholic thread.

The people of the Irish Republic always tell northerners to move on and forgive the British for their crimes during the troubles. These are the same people who can't forgive the Catholic church for their crimes and they even have boycotted the church.

Anyway, in relation to the thread, I don't attend mass anymore as I don't like the culture of rural mass, people just go to virtue signal as soon as they are out the doors they are gossiping about their neighbours.

If there is an afterlife I believe I am going to heaven as God made me an incel which was a life of suffering. I see no reason why I wouldn't be going to eternal paradise given the unfortunate hand I was dealt. Although if we all just slip into non existence that is fine too.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667845#Comment_120667845

*Anti RCC thread.

There aren't too many who can forgive atrocities committed against children.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667845#Comment_120667845

I rarely hear anyone other than the Brits tell Northern Irish folks to forgive and forget.

Jock_Ewing

How can any man tell me their isn't a God or guiding force behind such beauty on a day like this. Listening to music like this!

https://youtu.be/7_arP69Gzm0

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667761#Comment_120667761

Christenings are the worst. Unmarried parents with babies born out of wedlock (I couldn't care less about that part) being baptised into a religion that frowns heavily upon sex outside of marriage and children born to unmarried parents. But everyone puts on the gladrags, forces a few smiles, promises to raise the kids as good catholics, and then head off to the pub to drown the memories).

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668009#Comment_120668009

Why are you so concerned about the decisions of other parents and their family events? Focus on raising your own children to the best of your ability and let others do the same. If that involves participating in the sacraments, so be it.

It’s really none of your business.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667204#Comment_120667204

Quite likely although the numbers will be small.

A year or two ago the Presbyterian church in Ireland in effect broke away from its parent in Scotland because the Irish leadership regarded the Scots as too "soft on gays", that drove plenty of moderate members away but just reinforces the self-righteousness of those who remain.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667209#Comment_120667209

How about you try playing the ball and not the man?

Maybe the word "recruit" is what you are taking such exception to - but of course they wanted you to keep going back there and become more and more involved, so call it what you like, their desired outcome was the same.

Think about it. You were young and in a foreign country with a foreign language, as you said yourself lonely and isolated...

I've experienced something akin to the love-bombing thing myself in the past. People who can't get enough of you until they realise you're not going to get into the god thing like they are and then they drop you like a brick. One can easily see how a vulnerable person could be taken advantage of in that kind of situation. It's not for nothing that "preaching the word" etc is a major goal of most religions (the ones you don't need to be born into.)

The California thing was a joke (although, it really did happen)

Notably you didn't address the fact that the effect of the RCC on the lives of non-catholics in Ireland is actually not negligible like you claimed - so long as it still has influence in our health system and control of nearly all of our primary education system.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667845#Comment_120667845

There are parallels.

Like letting the relatives know where the bodies are buried...

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668002#Comment_120668002

Well on boards reincarnation is a proven fact 😝

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668443#Comment_120668443

You’re fundamentally paranoid and if you continue spewing bile of this nature, you’ll actually push those who are ambivalent back into the arms of the church.

You’re portraying people as victims without agency, lured into the arms of a menacing institution, poised to swallow them whole. The reality, in my particular case, was that a kindly priest and some older parishioners in their 70s, welcomed a young, foreign man into their community and helped him adapt to life there. Zero coercion, zero expectation that I become more heavily involved, and no dropping me like a brick when I scaled back my attendance at mass to less than once a month.

Some people, including many catholics, are just decent altruistic people who are pleasant to be around. It’s certainly far more enjoyable than listening to aggressive, obnoxious atheists pontificating on the beliefs of others. To reiterate, this hectoring attitude alienates people and actually engenders sympathy for the church. If you had any common sense, you would trust in the baseline intelligence of people to draw their own conclusions around Catholicism and organized religion in general. You just can’t help yourself though, can you?

In terms of health care and religion, can you catalog how the influence of the church on these services impacts your daily life? Do you have young children in primary school? I do, two of them in fact, with a third entering in a couple of years. I have no issue with them attending catholic primary schools and receiving the watered down religious instruction on offer these days. Horror of horrors, I also have zero issues with them receiving the sacraments. You’re not fooling anybody with your faux concern for non-catholic children who are ostensibly ‘othered’. You’re just using it a stick to continue beating an institution, with which you have a clearly unhealthy obsession.

nozzferrahhtoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666194#Comment_120666194

There are some potential correlation-causation issues with what you say here too however. For example the idea that "Religious people tend to live longer". Religious people tend to be older. Therefore the type of person who tends to be religious tend to be older. Therefore it may not at all be that religious people tend to live longer, but that people who live longer tend to be religious. It can be what we call a self selecting statistic therefore.

In other words anyone making the claim that religious people tend to live longer are making a correlation statement. They have not yet made the first step to show that religion or religiousity has anything whatsoever to actually do with their longevity.

There are a lot of assumptions and claims within your two bullet points too however. So I would be all for seeing the actual citations behind them to see whether the claims track with what the studies actually show. But unfortunately nothing you have said throughout this entire post can or should be taken at face value for a number of reasons I could list. So citations needed.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668744#Comment_120668744

You have no problem with your kids getting taught catholic lessons in school and receiving the sacraments. Be honest now here, if you were told that religious education and sacraments were to be carried on outside of school and you've to give up your Sunday mornings for a year to attend mass and prepare for communion with your child would you do it? Or would you protest that the school must continue to waste valuable time indoctrinating children so you can wash your hands of it and use your time for something else?

JohnJoFitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668009#Comment_120668009

Not in any way related to my experience. Happy occasions, no forced smiles, sometimes pub, sometimes not - no need to be drowning any memories of a harmless happy family occasion.

Being that bitter can't be healthy. Maybe you should talk to someone - ideally not a priest :-).

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668944#Comment_120668944

I wouldn't say bitter, just calling it as I see it. The last christening I was at I sat in bemusement and bewilderment observing the level of hypocrisy on show at the ceremony , along with the ostentatiousness of the whole thing. Same with communions and confirmations, it is by no means about the sacraments, its all about the dress/money/bouncy castle/party these days, so I wonder why people bother with the effort of the sacrament ceremony.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669062#Comment_120669062

One would wonder why you bother going.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668869#Comment_120668869

Personally and if it was solely my decision, I probably wouldn't. However, it is important to my wife. She happily takes our kids to mass most Sundays and absolutely wants them to receive the sacraments. I'm much more ambivalent about the entire endeavor. However, as I'm sure you're aware, marriage is all about compromise, so I'm happy enough to go along with it.

My point here is that the aggressive, anti-Catholicism evidenced on this thread isn't doing your arguments any favors. The facile references to California-based cults (not you) and snidey insinuations of 'indoctrination' are fundamentally counter-productive. It's a legitimate turn-off for people like me who are on the fence when it comes to all forms of organized religion.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669081#Comment_120669081

To not hear about it from the wife and in laws. I did of course put the foot down and refuse to be married in a church or have the kids baptised, on account of us not being religious.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120669088#Comment_120669088

Ah you're very different, she is a practicing catholic. Of course your kids would get the sacraments etc.

It's the parents who don't bother to make any effort whatsoever that I can't understand.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668854#Comment_120668854

You don't conduct studies into life expectancy by only interviewing people when they are elderly. You conduct longitudinal studies over many years where subjects are interviewed at different stages of their lives.