Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537222#Comment_121537222

See post above this..^^

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539920#Comment_121539920

Yeah, good luck with that. The Irish people won't vote to turn Ireland into a wee celtic prison cell off the coast of Europe.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539112#Comment_121539112

How did they board an airplane for Ireland then?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540044#Comment_121540044

It didn't state the number of Ukrainian people here in 2016. I presumed you knew because you said they came for low paying jobs, then decided welfare was better. You provided the link, I presumed you knew the details.

If they worked and paid taxes etc they are entitled to benefit back for a certain number of months aren't they, or do you not think tax payers should be entitled to benefits because they pay tax?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539914#Comment_121539914

Is not liking foreigners a good enough reason to ban them from living here?

Is that actually your question? Do you believe if you don't like someone you have some right to decide where they can and cannot live?

This is getting ridiculous now.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121538962#Comment_121538962

Fear of Immediate Removal is given as a reason, so to conceal their identity and stop them being deported?

So scamming?

MagicJohn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539143#Comment_121539143

Thanks for this, It is quite bonkers by any standard.

Economics is about the management of scarce resources and subsequent choices.

The fact that here is no motorway between the 2nd and 3rd most populated cities (are we the only EU country like this?) puts this kind of waste into sharp perspective.

This is biggest scandal of waste (in the history of the state) in the making.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539950#Comment_121539950

You don't think so? But then you seem pretty invested in the defence of this new paradigm.

I'd say 2/3rds of those I'd know have reservations.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539350#Comment_121539350

You stated earlier this year that having refugees in a towns hotel for 12 months is more economically beneficial to a town than having tourists 8 months n close over the winter.

Do you still stand by this?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540344#Comment_121540344

No I did not. I talked about some towns and certain hotels. Not hotels in Killarney for example but hotels in small remote towns that often close for winter months because of occupancy rates. Or hotels that have ceased to trade. Ross Hotel was closed for ages by the way. It will never be a going concern again. So is the other hotel in Oughterard (Gateway). Zero revenue ever again. That's clever.

Why don't you reply to the actual post chief??

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540401#Comment_121540401

That's exactly what I'm talking about - small tourist towns.

Tourists 8 months, closed 4 months.

So it's more economically beneficial to these towns that their hotel closes to tourists and has refugees all year round, you stand by that?

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540313#Comment_121540313

'Defence of this new paradigm.' If by that you mean a free and inclusive tolerant society where we are free to live and work anywhere within the Union, then yes I am.

If you think the people of Ireland want the country to go back to an oppressive, 1950's dystopian hellhole, you are mistaken and indeed free to move to live in the country next door which is currently trying out that straitjacket for size as we speak.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540422#Comment_121540422

Reply to the post smartass. You are talking about posts I did a year ago so if you found them, reply to them.

Name the town. I did not say tourist towns. I believe I named Ballyvaughan (one hotel was closed, other was in trouble) and we have 2 hotels in Oughterard which had ceased trading. They will never benefit their town ever again. There was one in Carraroe which was struggling or closed.

Are you against protecting Ukrainians now? Where would you put them?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540440#Comment_121540440

And you are free to leave as well, if you want to live in some cultural mishmash.

Aside from this, what do you know about the large amounts of money being made by individuals and businesses on the back of this new immigrant industry?

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540506#Comment_121540506

'Cultural mishmash?' Would you mind defining that please? For clarity.

You mean people being paid to house, clothe and feed people who are in need of help? I suppose we should also close the soup kitchens around Dublin and other major cities as well, seeing as they are making money feeding the poor?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540114#Comment_121540114

With fake documentation. They're so desperate to get to the new country that they pay forgers to create a new passport for them and then rip up the fake ID on the plane.

None of this is 'illegal' by the way - to the best of my knowledge, they have not broken any criminal law by going through an airport or travelling on a plane with a fake passport. It's not that much different to taking an international flight with no passport at all. At worst, they could simply refuse such a person entry.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540548#Comment_121540548

It certainly IS a crime to use fake ID to gain entry to an airplane flying to another country.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540586#Comment_121540586

Technically yes, but not a criminal offence. They cannot be charged and face trial because they travelled on a false document - they have just done something 'irregular' and in breach of the normal immigration rules.

creeper1

I don't think fake documents cut it anymore with biometrics and the like.

And I have to restate there are no direct flights to Ireland from Kabul or south Sudan.

Is it possible they arrived by boat and then overland to France and the Netherlands? Possible.

Why wouldn't there just stay there though?

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540548#Comment_121540548

Not a criminal act to destroy or get a fake passport? Check out the passport act 2008 which clearly says it is a criminal act. But Ireland refuses to prosecute because we are a bunch of fools.

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540613#Comment_121540613

Because Ireland offers a better chance of been granted asylum/right to stay even with no documents or fake documents. The word is out a long time.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540497#Comment_121540497

Ooh smartass- edgy

You claimed another poster was clearly spoofing without data.

I reminded you you claimed it was more economically beneficial to small tourist towns to have refugees 12 months a year than tourists 8 months. Sounds like spoofing without data to me.

No one mentioned closed hotels- except you.

I don't follow the war as much now, seems a stalemate at the front lines or small Ukraine gains.

No need for 800 a week coming nowadays, pay the same as asylum seekers e40 a week n the issue disappears. It's simply welfare tourism nowadays.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540613#Comment_121540613

Because they don't want to and there is no law that states they must.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540440#Comment_121540440

Get a grip, who said anything about going back to the 1950's?

The Irish people spent decades struggling financially, high taxes, poor services, restrictive laws around women and families. We have updated many laws but still have high taxes and poor services. Some posters seem to forget that we were totally broke just 15 years ago and thankfully we are starting to put that behind us. However, if there is more of our money in the public purse it should be used to improve the lives of the Irish people first and foremost.

How about we spend the spare billions on reducing the tax burden on families, or maybe fix our road and rail infrastructure? What about the carers or pensioners in our country who have to fight for an extra few euro to make ends meet or pay for heating? What about those with a disability - some of the services for those folks are back in the 50's for sure, you are spot-on there. Why not vastly improve the supports to families with physical or mental health needs? What about trying to improve the lives of our own citizens? It is outrageous that a pensioner who worked and paid taxes for 40+ years is paid the same weekly support as a person who just arrived here and never contributed a single penny to our state.

There are plenty of things we should be spending our taxes on, not squandering our money by paying the highest supports in the EU to refugees and anyone who sees our country as a soft touch.

It is sad to read so many posts from those who seem to have nothing but disdain and contempt for our own people. They can't or won't see the needs of our own, yet are falling over themselves to throw down the welcome mat for others. I am heartily sick of it.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540654#Comment_121540654

Not a legal expert, but I imagine all of the provisions of the Passport Act 2008 apply to Irish citizens and Irish passports only. A non national trying to enter the state from outside the jurisdiction is a completely separate area and comes under the heading of immigration law.

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540701#Comment_121540701

"It is sad to read so many posts from those who seem to have nothing but disdain and contempt for our own people. They can't or won't see the needs of our own, yet are falling over themselves to throw down the welcome mat for others. I am heartily sick of it.

______________________________________________________________________________________

These things are not mutually exclusive. We as a member state of the European Union have legal obligations that we can't just casually chuck into the nearest bin when it becomes inconvenient. At no point has anyone suggested ignoring the needs of Irish citizens living in this State. As I said in an earlier post, refugees from Ukraine and other countries need help and when they arrive on our doorstep we are obliged to respond, within the law.

The fact that the domestic economy is the way it is has nothing to do with refugees or migrants or anything else. We elected the same political parties that were in charge for the 08 financial crash and the same shower since. So, in the end, the reason there are problems in this State is down to govt. policy.

Can't find a flat in Dublin to rent? It sure as hell isn't the fault of Mary from Ukraine whose house has just been blown up and god knows where her family is.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540701#Comment_121540701

There are 41 countries aiding Ukraine during this war. In direct aid plus refugee costs we come in 24th. I’m not suggesting that we should.be higher up that list, but in purely monetary terms what we are doing is not extraordinary.

https://app.23degrees.io/view/jjk5qrNvY6pVz7qm-bar-horizontal-bar_chart_rf_total

we are one.of a few countries on that list that are running budget surpluses. So the government has scope to be doing more to address the issues you listed, but they are choosing not to.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540661#Comment_121540661

Reply to my post where I made this claim. I never mentioned any month metrics. I talked about occupancy levels and closed hotels. Stop making stuff up.

Ross Hotel and the Gateway Hotel in Oughterard had gone out of business and were open for 0 months of the year. Now they are destroyed. Is that clever economics?

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540707#Comment_121540707

"More than 4,200 people arrived at immigration control in Dublin Airport last year with no travel documentation, indicating they had destroyed or lost it before reaching immigration control. The majority of these claimed asylum.

Under the Immigration Act 2004 it is an offence, punishable by up to 12 months in prison or a €3,000 fine, for an adult to land in the State without a valid travel document."

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540840#Comment_121540840

"No I did not. I talked about some towns and certain hotels. Not hotels in Killarney for example but hotels in small remote towns that often close for winter months because of occupancy rates".

Copied from your post an hour or 2 ago.

Simple question, for the last time - do you believe small remote towns whose hotels close 4 months in winter and have tourists 8 months are better off economically having refugees in em all year round now?

It's a yay or nay answer.

I never mentioned shuttered hotels.