Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730029#Comment_120730029

Why would you give politicians a free pass?

You don't believe they are competent and feel we should make things easier for them? They are not toddlers learning about the world! They are elected representative who should be capable of doing their job correctly.

And this country's no where near over population

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729901#Comment_120729901

But the problem is that if you are signed up to international refugee agreements, you cannot opt out of those agreements and announce "Sorry, we're full". Even if we were in the middle of a huge recession and had 20% unemployment, we would still be expected by the international community to process asylum requests - just as every single country in Europe does.

If we were to even attempt to go down this route along with the rest of Europe, the entire international refugee system in Europe would collapse overnight (probably leading to a massive humanitarian crisis instead).

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730085#Comment_120730085

Are you a demographer now? If not, I’d suggest that you aren’t particularly well positioned to determine the optimal population that this country can support.

Meanwhile, those of us trying to secure school places for young children and access the health service for elderly parents, are faced with the reality that existing services are inadequate and in some instances, not fit for purpose.

Importing a cohort of people who are and will inevitably place even further strain on those services, has to be one of the most illogical and counterintuitive actions any clear thinking person could conceive..

Patrick2010

So take in everyone basically?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730171#Comment_120730171

We all have families and we all have issues with the services that our government seem incapable of providing.

Are you suggesting that we stop all immigration into the country?

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730199#Comment_120730199

Not quite. I think the logic is to get to pre-famine population levels and offer the same levels of housing, welfare, health, education, cultural norms and standard of living prevailing at that time :).

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730207#Comment_120730207

As suspected, you know nothing about demographics and have no clue as to optimal population levels. Cool.

What a ridiculous question. What I’m suggesting, is that immigration be aligned to the carrying capacity of this country i.e. set inward migration at levels commensurate with facilities and services available in this country.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729915#Comment_120729915

You can't really compare Ireland before the famine with the Ireland of today, most of the population outside the cities were poor tenant farmers who lived on potatoes or homeless labourers who went from place to place looking for work and the houses they lived in wouldn't be fit to have an animal in today.

The reality is for various reasons the Government just can't seem to get to grips with the housing crisis and if people keep coming here at the present rate they never will.

textiles

Europe, including Ireland, uses more resources (icluding food, fuel, land etc) than the EU’s ecosystems are able to renew e.g. twice as many according to this report of analysis carried out 7 years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/09/biocapacity-eu-outright-dangerous-in-its-use-of-natural-resources-says-wwf

In 2022, Europe needed the equivalent of 3 planet Earths to meet its ecological footprint according to this data: https://data.footprintnetwork.org/#/   

If anyone can cite published data (facts/research rather than assertions) that prove Ireland is under-populated, it would be good to see them.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730330#Comment_120730330

I'm not comparing, I'm just pointing out that relative to other European countries, our population is very low.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730286#Comment_120730286

As much as other posters on here I would imagine. We all have to deal with the lack of services.

You stated

'Importing a cohort of people who are and will inevitably place even further strain on those services, has to be one of the most illogical and counterintuitive actions '

So, therefore there should be no immigration right?

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730405#Comment_120730405

Really. How many children have you tried to secure school places for recently?

Do you understand what a cohort means? If you had a grasp of basic semantics, you wouldn’t pose such a ridiculous question.

Now back to your previous unsubstantiated assertion that Ireland is under-populated, what is the optimal population level for this country?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730420#Comment_120730420

I understand what a cohort means and I understand that all immigrants out pressure on the system. So, if that's your concern you really should be anti immigration not just anti a 'certain cohort'

My previous unsubstantiated assertion was a reply to another previous unsubstantiated assertion that Ireland is over populated. It is not.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730550#Comment_120730550

Again, you clearly don’t understand what a cohort means. It doesn’t mean all immigrants exert pressure on services. In fact, I work with scores of immigrants who exert little, if any pressure on the system and are in fact, substantive net contributors. I really shouldn’t have to explain something so remedial, but I guess I should know my audience at this stage.

On what basis are you asserting that Ireland is under-populated? We’ve established that your demographic-related expertise is, shall we say, surface level. Can you point to any data validating your view point that you’ve now reiterated multiple times. If not, what’s the optimal population target in your view? 6M, 7M, 10M? Which is it?

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729879#Comment_120729879

Who immigrated to Ireland per thread topic.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730653#Comment_120730653

Are you suggesting that immigrants don't use the health system? The schools? The doctors? Live in properties? Everyone in the country uses the services we have. Trying to blame a 'certain cohort' is disingenuous.

As far as I know the optimal population density depends on numerous factors, I'm no expert, but some experts believe 50-100 people per sq is optimal, Ireland has about 72 per sq km. We have plenty of money and lots of space.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730860#Comment_120730860

Indeed. People are almost forgetting that even if we had zero immigration or a falling population, you would still have huge pressure on housing, schools, hospitals and infrastructure if you're simply not building enough of it.

The constant linking of immigration to pressure on services and infrastructure is ultra simplistic stuff and thinking that stopping immigration to the country would somehow make the problems go away is not feasible. We had all of these problems and more in the mid 2010s when nobody was moving here and Irish people were leaving in their droves.

cal naughton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730860#Comment_120730860

Ireland does not have plenty of money. The national debt is 235 billion or about 44k per person.

https://www.ntma.ie/business-areas/funding-and-debt-management/statistics

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730900#Comment_120730900

All countries have debt.

Ireland is considered a very wealthy country.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730883#Comment_120730883

Nobody is advocating a position of halting all immigration to Ireland though.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730883#Comment_120730883

Housing was much less of an issue though.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731052#Comment_120731052

Any government worth its salt would be preparing and planning for a growing population (caused both by natural population growth and immigration). Treating such population growth as an aberration and a "problem" would be a quite bizarre approach for any government to take. Given our young population and relative prosperity, the working assumption must be that the Republic's population will hit 6m at some point in the next few decades. A government which is not planning and building the infrastructure for this should not be in office.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730860#Comment_120730860

Are you suggesting that different cohorts of immigrants do not have different outcomes in this country? Are you implying that there is zero nuance in the degree to which different groups of immigrants contribute vs. others? Are you suggesting that all immigrants are a monolith ‘Suvi’?

’As far as you know’. Who are you kidding? You know nothing. 50-100 people per square what? Kilometre, Mile? What unit precisely? At least try to get to get the nomenclature correct. What experts have declared that 50-100 people per square km is optimal? Quote a peer reviewed study to back up that assertion.

Just because you stick your fingers in your ears and repeat your inane mantra that Ireland has lots (infinite?) money and space, doesn’t make it correct. You haven’t a notion about demographics. That’s the only point that’s abundantly clear.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731908#Comment_120731908

Can you tone down the smug condescension just a tad? Cheers.

It's a bit nauseating,

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731653#Comment_120731653

Our birthrate was last at the replacement rate 2.4 births per woman in about 1991. It’s immigration.

No one is saying stopping immigration. Doing so would lead to a population decline eventually. Slowing it seems the logical course. There’s lots of ways to do this.

The rate of population growth is unprecedented, not good for the environment.

And even if you wanted the government to plan the schools, transport, accommodation and sewage etc for Dublin suburbs to link up with Kildare and Navan, you know they won’t plan for it!

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731941#Comment_120731941

If you have an issue with my posting style, I suggest you put me on ignore.

Cheers.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731989#Comment_120731989

Trying to stop the population from growing would be a very weird area for the government to get involved in. Risky too...the country has actually gone into depopulation mode several times in the last few decades : 'Be careful what you wish for' and all that. They could set in motion their plans to slow the population growth and then we're hit shortly after by a major global recession or a second worldwide pandemic or whatever. Tampering with population growth or demographics is not necessarily the best of ideas.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732165#Comment_120732165

Tampering with population growth or demographics is not necessarily the best of ideas.

Said with no one iota of self awareness. That's what we're literally doing now, and it's an objective disaster. It's really amazing that some will try and spin a reversal or any attempt to slow the tide as being radical and dangerous, when what we're doing at the moment is all of those things and more. We're really in times of pure madness psychologically speaking, where the mad try and convince the sane that they are the mad ones.

All of your fears are based on hypotheticals, our fears as based on things that have already happened and are happening. Potentialities versus realities. They are not bit the same, and will never sit on equal ground.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120734580#Comment_120734580

Good post. And spot on.

We're standing by as the country is being gradually wrecked. All attempts to challenge the process are being made non-discusssable. And now the non-discussability is becoming non-discussable.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732165#Comment_120732165

Surely this is an attempt at humour.

The government is tampering with population growth by encouraging people to come here with full benefits being offered and a promise to be housed.

This all has to be paid for, so if a recession hits and we have massive job losses then the more people we have here the worse it is.

We have hospitals overwhelmed as it is and people living in tents or cramped into office buildings.

If Covid came back how could these people practice social distancing.

If we had hospitals at breaking points to where we had to lock down non stop, then having more people would make it worse than things were during Covid.

I am intrigued to how you think increasing the population would benefit us if we had a recession or worldwide pandemic.