Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570280#Comment_121570280

Look we care about Irish people first and their needs. The rest can stay away, you have that clear?? Unless they have work permits. Away with them.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570281#Comment_121570281

Why am I not surprised that you would counter my argument with something that completely ignores the reality of the situation?

Tell me, where are these people to go?

There is a shortage of places for them to buy or rent, that's the issue here.

People who should be able to rent or buy their own places are stuck against their will in their childhood bedrooms because if they're not in those childhood bedrooms they're going to be adding to that figure of 13k+ officially listed as homeless.

You're framing it as an issue of choice or laziness which is both ignorant of the reality of the situation and insulting to those in that situation.

Do you believe that is a situation that is crying out for tens of thousands of additional human beings to be added to it?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570329#Comment_121570329

There is a shortage of places for rent of course, but we have people coming here to work from abroad all the time and managing it. Including nurses etc from India and they manage to find something. Maybe not ideal, maybe too expensive, but they still manage it.

The only way to improve the situation is to increase supply obviously. I agree there are many who have been forced back home in their 40s against their will, but there are also plenty of people (I can think of about 10 I know off the top of my head, might be different if you didn't grow up in a council estate) who are in their 40s and never moved, despite being through multiple economic cycles and times when rents were quite cheap.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570351#Comment_121570351

So we should ignore the housing crisis as an idea because you're offering some anecdotal evidence about people you know?

You do realise that companies bring people into this country to work in specific roles and either provide accommodation or subsidise their accommodation costs because of their roles importance to the business? My own employer has rented houses in the past to do this to house staff from outside the state, some of whom were only here Monday to Friday.

Everything you have presented here is both removed from reality and insulting to vast swathes of the population but somehow you still feel like your hot take of "these people are lazy" can be substantiated by your own anecdotal evidence.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570393#Comment_121570393

Hospitals are not doing this for nurses. Where did I say we should ignore the housing crisis? We need to provide more supply, which will obviously take time despite what some people think. We can't magic up constructions workers to work on housing developments. On an individual level we can't really do much, but we are in control of our own response, such as getting ourselves in a position to buy a property if living at home.

The reality is that it is a bit more nuanced than you are suggesting and yes, there were always plenty of people who didn't move out and not because they couldn't afford it. I think also the younger generation is used to a bit more comfort, say compared to my generation (I am early 40s)

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570334#Comment_121570334

Rubbish. Consider that we have something like 500 AS/Refugees sleeping in tents, hence are now included in the 'homeless' figures. The government are probably just playing a game of semantics, earmarking that building for "homeless"; while in reality, it's been ring fenced for AS, albeit 'homeless' ones.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570438#Comment_121570438

This discussion is about the effect ls of immigration into the state.

In relation to accommodation, which is in severely short supply, brining large numbers of people into the state is demonstrably unwise.

The issue of the housing crisis is not going to be easy to solve, adding extra people into the mix should be handled very carefully as a result, which is not happening right now.

I would suggest that your assertion about people being comfortable at home and unwilling to put themselves in a position to procure their own accommodation is extremely presumptuous and trivialises a large number of peoples lived experience based on your own limited anecdotal evidence.

I'm a similar age to you, and I do own my own home but that doesn't give me the right to scoff at people in a less fortunate position to me, I know people my age who have slogged hard and scrapped together the resources to buy a house and I know others who have done all of that and have not been fortunate enough for that to happen for them. Nobody is under any illusions that it is possible to sit back and let their elderly parents look after them indefinitely, the idea that it is a lifestyle choice for a significant number of people is frankly bizarre and comes across as condescending.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570512#Comment_121570512

We have an obligation in particular to Ukrainians to provide refuge. We should be ideally looking to give quick decisions to others and if unsuccessful, then actually deport them. Maybe also make airlines keep copies of IDs used to board planes so that the those who get rid of their passports can be identified properly.

We also have plenty of people arriving because we actually need them to work in industry or the health service.

Strazdas

It's debatable how much of the housing crisis is caused by immigration. Non nationals tend not to buy houses or apartments, not unless their clear intention in advance is to remain in the country for ten years or more (or perhaps forever). So whilst they are undoubtedly adding to pressure on the existing rental market, they are much less of a factor when it comes to people buying houses and apartments and taking out mortgages etc.

Which in turn means that prospective homeowners are not emigrating because of inward migration, but because of the balls up the government has made of the housing market.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570554#Comment_121570554

Are they AS/Refugee/Ukrainian 'families'?

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570290#Comment_121570290

I get where you're coming from. I do. You're not the first to say to me we'll be voting Sinn Fein and indies. I have a feeling though that if we want complete change,ignore the independents if possible and just vote SF. That would alter the landscape of Irish politics. We've had the usual suspects in office in various guises for how long? If SF want a go, let 'em.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570334#Comment_121570334

Sea Swimming emerges from the ocean, drops in with fully formed and engaged argument.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570512#Comment_121570512

I agree completely. Matters regarding immigration were generally fine when numbers were smaller. But recent years have seen a growing impact on many ordinary Irish families and feelings of discontent are only going to grow. It is very foolish of the state to allow these numbers of new arrivals to accumulate on top of the existing problems with rising rentals, lack of housing for purchase and services under strain.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570630#Comment_121570630

Mary Lou wearing a WEF pin on her lapel?

Voting SF is just a cosmetic change.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570630#Comment_121570630

Only problem with that is that I've been around long enough to know that SF have only one main item on their agenda. And it's neither housing, immigration or anything else of this nature. It's a border poll.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570559#Comment_121570559

People arriving for skilled work isn't an issue.

Refugees aren't an issue.

Economic migrants arriving as asylum seekers is an issue however, and they make up a not insignificant number of people arriving here which needs a lot more attention than is currently being given to the issue.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570569#Comment_121570569

The housing crisis effects buyers and renters, nobody is immune from it and yes it is a factor that needs to be considered when adding to our population. We can't just keep taking asylum seekers into the country and saying "right so, we've held up our end of the bargain" and leaving them to sleep in tents.

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570653#Comment_121570653

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570669#Comment_121570669

I think this is one of those put up or shut up moments. At the moment, SF are pretty much the only real opposition. Labour are there, maybe people will swing back to them. Can't see it happening, not after last time. Sure, SF have a definite lets get rid of the border agenda. All that aside, they will inherit a stack of issues that have been happily ignored by the current govt. Issues that SF have spent the last 10 years promising to sort if in office. If they get in with a decent majority, not a split Dail where there is Harry the independent holding everyone to ransom. It'll be their chance to prove that change is possible.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570690#Comment_121570690

Yes, but it needs to be broken down into the differences between the buyers and rental market. Many people in Europe tend not to buy their own homes and choose to rent all of their lives (a very different culture to Ireland). So whilst immigration is without a doubt impacting on the Irish rental market, it is much less of a factor with the buyers market (and home ownership in Ireland is up around the 65% mark).

tom23

If you think that inward immigration has no correlation with the housing crisis especially when it effects irish born citizens inability to buy or rent well then I simply give up. I get you are pro immigration, that’s fine, but to think it has no correlation is baffling.

I read an article there yesterday that a brazilian mother of 1 got a ‘forever home’ in SCD (could be wicklow). She is living in Ireland 10’years. Not bad going I say. I know working couples on lower income, Irish born Inmigh add, that have been on a housing list for over 10 years. Working… just not earning enough to buy. Btw I don’t begrudge the brazilian lady… she has a house and best of luck to her. But that scenario can be replicated a lot I’d imagine. My point is that brazilian lady was on a list. Adds pressure to a massive list. We can build all want. It will never catch up.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570735#Comment_121570735

I already told you, the government are now playing a semantics game with the word 'homeless'.

If you haven't figured it out, there is a hierarchy of homeless people and Ukrainians, then AS/refugees top the priority list.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570765#Comment_121570765

I found that one of the most bizarre articles, almost like the independent was trying to wind a certain cohort up.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570281#Comment_121570281

You can save like a lunatic all you want but with only 11,100 properties for sale across the country, you'd be lucky to be able to buy. Another poster mentioned 2006, the issue then was the cost of housing more so than the supply, at that time the prices were sky rocketing. I remember I bought a 2 bed apartment in Meath for €215 in 2004 by 2006 I could have sold the apartment for €270. If I remember correctly I don't think there was any problems at the time with the rental market, that seemed to be functioning well, yes rents were expensive but at least you could get somewhere.

https://twitter.com/CWeston_Indo/status/1742077587638161584

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570849#Comment_121570849

What do you care if I think it's justified or not?

I don't provide material support for any criminal behavior, if that's what your getting at.

StudentDad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570863#Comment_121570863

Time will tell. We have according to posters above 500,000 people in their 20's and 30's in the box room giving a few quid to their parents every week. People who have never traditionally voted FF or FG. People who couldn't care less about the civil war or de Valera or any of that. They care about getting a place of their own. If SF promise and deliver that. As I said, time will tell.

Cluedo Monopoly

A lot of talk about homelessness and our failure to deal with that problem before the immigration crisis. I wrote before about Enda Kenny pretending to be shocked when he did a walkabout in Dublin (2015) following the death of a homeless person through exposure. It was pure fakery for the cameras. I remember the FG fanboys saying how it was impossible to turn empty buildings and office blocks into accommodation for homeless people. Somehow we managed to do it for the Ukrainians and IPAs. In fact they quickly changed the planning laws to allow it to happen.

No planning permission needed for two years on converting buildings to house Ukrainian refugees – The Irish Times

No planning permission needed for two years on converting buildings to house Ukrainian refugees.

The move would enable the use of a “wide list of buildings and structures to accommodate or support persons seeking international protection,” he said. 

The amendment will expire on December 31st 2024, with the use of the buildings to house refugees ending at this point, he said.

There was cross-party welcome on the committee for the amendment, but TDs sought assurances there would be clear and early communication with communities in advance of any building conversion.

---------------------------

Political will is very important when trying to solve problems but it has been lacking in successive governments for a long time.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570946#Comment_121570946

It's obviously something that triggers you so, BE triggered.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570765#Comment_121570765

Social housing represents about 9% of the total housing stock. Immigration is definitely impacting on the rental market, but not on the buyers' market (how many non nationals in your area own their own home or have taken out a mortgage?).

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570863#Comment_121570863

Absolutely. And Michael Martin will retire in order for that happen. That's exactly what will happen.

Tbh, it's definately preferable to Sinn Fein in government alone.

lmimmfn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570849#Comment_121570849

For a new account, your posts ask a lot of questions, hmmm, reminds me of someone else.

On burning buldings, i dont think anyone posting thinks that is justified but that wont prevent it from continuing to happen.

suvigirl

Immigration has little to do with the housing crisis.

There have always been housing issues in this country since the beginning of the state.

Supply has everything to do with it, and ridiculous government policies with regard to housing. Artificially inflating prices and selling off state owned housing stock.

1.5 million Irish born live abroad, which is proof that successive governments have not been planning with our population in mind.

If all foreign born in this country left tomorrow and our Irish born returned, we would have 750,000 more people living here.