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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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    #9722
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657678#Comment_121657678

    No. He can't illegally tortured by tying him up in cable ties, pepper spraying him and putting a hood over his head.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9723
    Sup08
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭Sup08


    removed.



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    #9724
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657682#Comment_121657682

    Change the law then.



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    #9725
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657693#Comment_121657693

    No. We don't allow torture like that and rightfully so.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9726
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657703#Comment_121657703

    Torture through pepper spray, tieing up in cable ties and pulling hoods over their head is illegal.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9727
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657711#Comment_121657711

    Does tieing people up with cable ties, pepper spraying them and pulling hoods over their heads happen on a daily basis?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9728
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657311#Comment_121657311

    You can't, and I have explained more than once what was meant. You seem a bit obsessed with Germans.



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    #9729
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭Cordell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656622#Comment_121656622

    As someone said, it depends on the context. When you see large groups of middle eastern or north african looking men then you can safely say that they aren't Germans. Even if they were (which they aren't) it's still a big issue that a country suffered such dramatic demographic changes that large crowds without a single white German are now common.



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    #9730
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657770#Comment_121657770

    No point trying to explain, they already know this but they don't want to admit it. Doesn't suit their argument that this mass flooding of countries is changing the demographic that much that places and groups of people are leaving some cities unrecognisable. Lots of part's of Dublin are becoming the same.



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    #9731
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,335 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Large fire in the Airways Industrial Estate in Santry.

    I know there was protests there about an asylum centre.

    Not sure if this is the building.



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    #9732
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,162 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656646#Comment_121656646

    Now that is what I call a decent set of proposals/ solutions as per the thread title. And worth repeating below.

    Let's have some constructive proposals/ solutions from those determined to defend the current situation. And please not just the rehash - 'it's all the governments fault for not building enough houses or it's all the airlines fault' Enough of that deflection.


    Abozz "An end to refugee arrivals. Pay the fines to the EU. Or don't.

    Rapid, thorough processing of current refugee applications on site of arrival. Striving for same day turnaround.

    Passport missing on stepping off plane? Straight back on return flight to origin. No ifs or buts. Dedicated planes, fines on plane companies, just make it happen.

    A complete revocation of work visas tied to foreign students.

    A microscope put on certain companies renowned for dodgy labour such as those delivery companies. Revenue investigations escalated.

    A complete redefinition of what constitutes "skill shortage" and an overall decimation of numbers. Yes to more doctors, no to more keyboard tappers.

    Any existing visas to be re examined as to actual skill shortage, allow them to expire or continue depending.

    An even stricter regime to be applied to family reunification visas.

    Social welfare should be treated on a two tier system, an allowance of X time for workers from abroad, nothing for non workers from abroad, no social housing for non-irish and so forth to extinguish the magnet effect it has on the world.

    Universities need better funding to wean them off international fees.

    An entire reevaluation of the university system to produce irish needed skills at double to catch up.

    A complete overhaul of the system that allows housing to be bought at scale by foreign investment, and to lesser extent irish investment. Buy backs or fook offs to those holding vast swathes of housing.

    And lots more besides.

    The resulting population decrease over a reasonable time frame of say 5 years would have the desirable knock on effect of attracting back emigrants who left to escape the multiple crises which would by then begin to mitigate."



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    #9733
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,162 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656807#Comment_121656807

    What are your policies, challenges and solutions? What do you think should happen? How many non nationals should we take in this year that are not on a valid work or study visa??

    If you think everything is hunky dory - well then please explain why.



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    #9734
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657696#Comment_121657696

    All of these things are use by the gardai anyway.

    And, by the the way, it's not your decision to change the law or not.

    And it's not torture, it's restraint during transit if you are unwilling to behave.



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    #9735
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658212#Comment_121658212

    Firstly, there is no solution. Secondly, the past couple of years have been an unprecedented surge caused by post Covid bottleneck and the Ukraine crisis and the recent numbers are likely to gradually subside in any event.

    If you want measures however, the first principle you and everyone else is going to have to get used to is that, for now, once people make it here our options are fairly limited. That sucks, but that's the way it is. Deportations are not easily achieved and the Dublin Regulations on re-assigning responsibility for refugees to another EU country they passed through on their way here just don't work. Belgium, France, whoever else isn't going to take back every refugee who travels from there to here.

    You can build centres, holding areas, whatever else you can think of — but none of this changes the fact that once asylum seekers reach our shores, our ability to just do as we please with them is highly constrained.

    So what can we do to reduce the numbers arriving here and facilitate a better system for removing people who should not be allowed to enter? To me, the measures are interdependent, in summary:

    (1) Better protect the EU external borders, including the Mediterranean, to reduce numbers in the first instance. This requires EU wide collaboration but it will never be perfect.

    (2) Provide greater financial, infrastructural and manpower assistance and co-operation to the frontline states like Greece and Italy to prevent their ability to handle numbers becoming overwhelmed — because where they are overwhelmed this has spillover effect into other states and creates a dynamic where one EU country will not facilitate another in moving deportees back along the chain.

    (3) If point 2 is implemented properly, facilitate speedier deportation processes, which relies on point 4 being implemented.

    (4) Equitable sharing of the burden — if all member states equitably share the burden for handling those refugees who do successfully enter the EU, this has a double benefit: (a) it mitigates the risk of a small number of states being shafted and (b) because of that, provides more capacity across the board for one EU state to accept the reassignment of refugees to faciliate deportation. The is why "zero refugee" policies are actually counter productive.

    (5) Work with the origin states or the neighbouring states to create incentives for co-operating with EU states on accepting back deportees.

    None if this is ever going to "solve" the problem though, and that is something you need to make peace with.



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    #9736
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657795#Comment_121657795

    Which parts of Dublin are unrecognisable?



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    #9737
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121657716#Comment_121657716

    Why would it happen on a daily basis?

    Surely the vast, vast majority of people being issued with deportation orders would leave voluntarily.



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    #9738
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,335 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Barry Ward said on the radio this morning on Claire Byrne that there's no point asking how refugees got here as they might not tell the truth.

    Looks like Barry Ward is suggesting asylum seekers tell lies. Playing to the far right now?



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    #9739
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658924#Comment_121658924

    It usually involves multiple EU countries and flights, how about prosecuting those who destroy their passports and travel documents,

    But it also begs the question if they don't tell the truth about how and where they came from to get here ,how can they believe any kind of story for there claim

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #9740
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658506#Comment_121658506

    No. Gardai do not tie people up with cable ties or put hoods over people.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9741
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659032#Comment_121659032

    I never claimed anything. All this talk of pepper spray, cable ties and hoods is just nonsense. I will leave it there.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9742
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121658984#Comment_121658984

    Except they do.



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    #9743
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659041#Comment_121659041

    Are you saying we should deport all the ones that are willing to leave quietly, but keep all the aggressive, violent ones?



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    #9744
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659110#Comment_121659110

    No. That's you saying those things.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9745
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659125#Comment_121659125

    So how do you propose to deport all the aggressive ones?



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    #9746
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659137#Comment_121659137

    There was a case several years back where a Garda has his face slashed open when a Nigerian deportee got his hands on a weapon mid flight and attacked the accompanying Guard

    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • Options
    #9747
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659137#Comment_121659137

    I am not proposing anything. We are done here with this sideshow nonsense.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9748
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659161#Comment_121659161

    I think that's why the Annasopra types want to keep all the violent ones.

    Get rid of all the compliant law abiding ones, makes the statistics look good



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    #9749
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659176#Comment_121659176

    No you are done.

    Because you can't explain how to deport somebody who has, for example, raped somebody.

    Absolute fail. Goodbye.



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    #9750
    suvigirl
    Registered Users Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659099#Comment_121659099

    No they don't. Where would you get such an idea



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    #9751
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121659192#Comment_121659192

    Pepper spray.

    Spit hoods.

    Handcuffs.

    All in use at the moment.



This discussion has been closed.
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