Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

Sunny Disposition

The thread is kind of a microcosm of the ‘debate’ about immigration. There are the pious and the racist, who take up a lot of the oxygen.

There are also people who would like to see some common sense applied, who actually seem to be in the majority. They are frequently dismissed by the pious.

Boards is rather surprisingly echoing the real world:)

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734161#Comment_121734161

Pays well and allows me to have multiple screens open and Spotify premium too

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734231#Comment_121734231

I understand your point, but I think many people would back a visa/employment system which enabled immigrants to come to ireland to work.

Those folks will not take up the job offer until they secure accomodation. Same as Irish people moving to London etc.

Asylum seekers would then be processed via a different route, as they arent seeking employment. At least not initially.

We largely have the above system in place, but the elephant in the room is that we have run out of accomodation for the latter group.

Which was obviously predicted at least a year or so ago.

At some point, we will realise that infrastructure has to be balanced against demand.

If we have 200 asylum places, we can accomodate 200 more asylum seekers etc.

We (the govt) havent reached that realisation yet, although we are getting closer.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734243#Comment_121734243

The problem with that is to have an honest open debate/discussion people will have to admit that they are wrong we have too many SJWs trying to stop any debate from happening, wether it be housing, healthcare, immigration, women,

We don't have unlimited housing,we don't have unlimited healthcare,we don't have unlimited school places ,we don't need unlimited immigration/mass asylum seekers

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734282#Comment_121734282

Some sensible suggestions there. A small wealthy country like this does require a better system for legal immigration. People are fixated on asylum seekers, but legal immigration since the Nice Treaty passed has had a far bigger impact on housing and services. Even though politicians said there wouldn't be a huge influx of immigrants when they campaigned on it. At EU level Ireland needs to at the very least be vocal about the issues presented. Britain already left in large part due to them, other countries see the problems too, and they are not insurmountable, even if they are highly controversial.

I think people think Ireland is more exceptional than it is. France (What's in France's controversial immigration law? (lemonde.fr)) the UK and the US are all moving to limit immigration, there is fairly broad support for steps in this direction, the disagreement tends to be about what the right steps are rather than the need for movement. In the States the disagreement at the moment is about whether the current proposals go far enough or not.

The current situation in Ireland is obviously flawed, we have homeless asylum seekers, almost no houses to rent and severely overcrowded hospitals. People might forget, less than ten years ago there were ghost estates around the country and big downward pressure on rents. That has changed utterly. If immigration continues at the same clip for the next ten years then the problems of capacity are going to keep getting worse.

It is very unfortunate that this has become a divisive issue, some people, including members of our government, are putting ideology over reality.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734212#Comment_121734212

Well if they're going to fix your roof, that needs resources, hence the wisdom of cancelling pay rises in the public sector. Use that money to help fix the roof, then assess how many people, your house can safely hold.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734124#Comment_121734124

Its not at all.

What you are suggesting is possible, as seen in countries around the world where a government stays in place term after term without democratic elections but we know what that is..

The whole point of our system is that we can kick them out if they are not doing what the majority want or running the country properly.

What we do need (and I am hoping this is what you meant?)

.. That some issues are legislated for with cross party agreement and a program for government in some areas are not changed every time we get a new government, disrupting any good progress made just for political credit.

hotmail.com

Another fire in Leixlip according to RTE.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734667#Comment_121734667

My point is the type of people that need a popularity contest every few years to keep their jobs maybe aren't the types would be good in those positions. Narcissists etc.

bertieinexile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732515#Comment_121732515

Does anyone seriously believe that fewer immigrants in Ireland would mean that rent prices in Dublin will suddenly become reasonable?

To answer the precise limited question you asked, of course having fewer immigrants in Ireland would reduce rent prices.

Here's a chart from a report by Dublin southside estate agents Owen Reilly which covers their H1 2023 renters in the *Residential* Rental Market.

(Bubbles are for H2 2022)

https://www.owenreilly.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Owen-Reilly-Market-Report-H1-2023.pdf

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734914#Comment_121734914

I would agree that immigration is having an effect on rent and house prices in Ireland...

But I think the report you shared is likely to be very misleading. It's based on one firm's business in South Dublin who it seems specialize in rentals to the tech sector (57% of their customers.)

I'm in favor of reducing the number of visas issued (as part of wider efforts) but I think we also need a shift in how we approach housing in this country. Putting the focus on immigration is letting the current gov off the hook in terms of housing.

hotmail.com

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0207/1430998-investigation-after-arson-attack-on-kildare-building/

Lost count the number of fires. And hundreds in tents.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733051#Comment_121733051

I said about the health service because its true. We do bring in many on visas to work in our health service nurses and doctors mainly from India and the Phillipines all with loads of experience .

And many of the lower skilled jobs are being taken up by numerous immigrant groups who don't turn their noses up at cleaning and personal care for people. They see work like most Irish do abroad and used to here , a means to an end .

Other areas are only getting by with the English students who work parttime in cafes and bars and restaurants for, yes, minimum wage... what some here think is "a race for the bottom," is actually one of the highest minimum wages in the OECD and also now statutory 5 days sick leave paid per year.. Thats a big jump from a few years ago when it was 9 eu per hour and no sick days.

These people are needed to work here if we are to have a functioning economy. And they are contributing so leave them. They want to work that's good and they are coming here because they are very happy with those wages , until they learn the language get a qualification , and in some cases ( many in fact ) get their own qualifications recognised here .

68% of immigrants have 3rd level qualifications education before coming here. Not uneducated masses at all.

We have difficulty housing and providing services for people because our government has been incapable of effectively using the millions salted from so much corporate tax etc to provide essential services for our growing economy.

Not enough teachers in schools.. this has been a problem perennially. Now we have teachers who can't work in the cities or away from home, along with guards, nurses and even junior doctors. Civil servants have had this problem always.

Again rent spiralling, and house prices for years.. nothing new .

We have a continual drain of our qualified young away but many would leave for a few years anyway to travel, get new experiences. Some are leaving for a better way of life but not everybidy. And that is elusive elsewhere longterm because every richer country has housing and cost of living problems.

What we need now is what should have been happening since the last crash..

More investment in services and housing , less tax loopholes and giveawys for those who don't need them, but hey, they are keeping their usual voter base happy.

Delighted it's a growing economy but not investing to grow services has been a recipe for disaster.

If we are looking for common ground we can all agree on that .

Its the floating or squeezed middle voters who will say who we get after the next election and so many are unhappy and have been long before immigration has blown up as an issue.

I don't deny the inept way this particular issue is being handled is contributing to all our ills, but its not the cause.

And to add whatever hope we have of sorting anything out for the future it won't be by voting for any of the shower of langers putting themselves forward for election purely on an anti immigration platform , that's for sure .

Immigration with work visas and EU / UK migration should not be conflated with IPAs or AS .

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734469#Comment_121734469

So you do agree with me then, it's all immigration that is an issue. If there is an issue other than government not actually doing what they're supposed to.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734622#Comment_121734622

Oh yeah, forgot the government has no money.....silly of me 😂

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c512zl7jj04o

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734909#Comment_121734909

Yes I see your point .

Maybe some vote in personalities....thats why some langers get in time and again " sure they're gas aren't they ?"

I suspect a lot of people have the cop on to vote for whomever can do the job and look at where the vote is going ie .on party lines .

Ultimately if you do make the mistake of voting for a complete langer/ narcissist, at least with this system you can hope they don't do too much damage abd boot them out in 4/ 5 years time .

That is why I never commit to any one party...at the door " why should I vote for you and what the hell have you being doing over the last 5 / 10 years?"

I caught one as he put the leaflet in the door the last time lol 😁

Sunny Disposition

Its over 20 years ago now, but even before the Nice Treaty Irish immigration was being led by pieties rather than reality, and a belief in Irish exceptionalism. It just seems to be very hard for some Irish people to believe that there can be any downsides at all to immigration, even when other countries acknowledge it, even when the country has a housing crisis.

With a massive shortage of houses now, and parents sending kids to boarding schools because the local schools are full, some people still can't accept that there has been too much immigration. It's almost like a religious faith. Looking for tighter immigration policies is a perfectly acceptable ask at any time, but some people genuinely think those who advocate it are racist.

Minister defends post-Nice Treaty 'open door' policy | Independent.ie

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733240#Comment_121733240

Yeah....the problem here is that you aren't saying what you actually mean and appear to be inventing a logic to get around saying it.

One minute you're saying it's madness to increase the population to the detriment of stretched services, but suddenly this would be absolutely not madness if the population is increased by returning Irish emigrants.

It's obvious from what you're saying here that you don't actually have any issue with increased population straining already stretched services — it's that you have an issue with people not born in Ireland being part of that strain.

So why not just say that instead of just making up a different concern that you don't actually have?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734984#Comment_121734984

I'd agree with you on a lot but I'm not sure I'd fully agree on the 'race to the bottom' argument.

We do have a much improved minimum wage here the past few years, but it's still nowhere near a living wage, and perhaps getting further away as rents increase?

Sure minimum vs living wage might a common issue in a lot of OECD countries, but would it be if migrant labor weren't so readily available? Might a minimum wage then not have to be closer to a living wage?

Aside from that, we have a lot of mnc investment and employment, because of our lower corporation tax rates. In that sense it very much is a 'race to the bottom'.

I'm in favor of inward and outward migration but only if people genuinely want to move and are not doing so because mnc's have all located to wherever the lowest corporation tax rates are.

That said I think by far the biggest impact on quality of life in this country has come from government failures on housing and health, and if anything this current focus on migration looks like it will only serve to return FFG to power where they'll continue to pursue the same failed policies.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735428#Comment_121735428

Well we won't be having lower corporate tax rates from now on so that's one point gone Megaman ...

We do have one of the best standards for workers in the OECD and that living wage is a problem EU wide especially since the Ukraine War .

I would be in favour of increases in line with suggestions from SJI for sure to create an optimum work environment for low paid workers as our rent are crippling and people really can not get their heads above water otherwise.

But my point as you know is that this is not a problem to do with immigration , as some would paint it here . It is to do with consistent under investment by FG since the crash , and when we caught up a bit with minimum wage it was eaten up by the cost of living crisis.

combat14

Leixlip fire: Vacant building in Co Kildare damaged in latest suspected anti-immigration arson attack

Rumours were circulating online that property in Leixlip was earmarked to house asylum-seekers

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/02/07/leixlip-fire-vacant-building-in-co-kildare-damaged-in-latest-suspected-anti-immigration-arson-attack/

insurance companies will be afraid to insure these types of buildings at this rate the way things are going

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735190#Comment_121735190

"Looking for tighter immigration policies is a perfectly acceptable ask at any time, "

What has happened to our country since the Nice treaty .

My God what a statement !

A boom, a crash , a recovery , a growing strong economy rich in corporate tax revenue but under investment in services and housing by FF initially , FG primarily , latterly FF again.!

Its not immigration , we have tens of thousands leaving each year before Covid because of the issues I suggest . Way before Ukraine and current waves of immigration .

Mad stuff ..we need to hold them to account . Vote in SD , Labour , Independents , and Sinn Fein , decimate the fxxkers so that they finally get the message .

Gatling

I wonder if a rumour that the dail was going to be used to house asylum seekers what would happen

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735571#Comment_121735571

unfortunately it wont make a difference for another 10 years there simply are just not enough turn key houses/ apartments available or the skilled workers here to make them at present

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735571#Comment_121735571

SF, SD, Labour - not any of them have the competency to create (or re-create as the case may be) a functioning housing market.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735248#Comment_121735248

Sorry for butting in but I’d say we have much more of an obligation to look after returning emigrants who grew up in Ireland more than those newly arrived

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734914#Comment_121734914

So the majority are foreign , but it's not surprising,I believe there's a lot of properties being bought up for cash from Chinese nationals especially in more desirable locations Close to Dublin City centre,we all seen the videos of hundreds queuing to view properties which Irish nationals would be outnumbered by multiples of non nationals

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735918#Comment_121735918

Who cares if they are foreign?

If they are working here they are doing more good than an unemployed irish lad.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735935#Comment_121735935

I'd say the Irish people who have had to scrimp and save while living in there parents box rooms care ,the people trying to live in our own country and communities care ,