Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769016#Comment_121769016

Maybe you might share your reasoning then? Back it up with something other than your obvious general dislike of immigrants?

But of course we're not allowed call you racist or far-right, I forgot.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769025#Comment_121769025

I'm not saying some people aren't taking advantage the asylum process, I'm asking where you get the idea that everyone who doesn't meet the criteria is?

Like I've said already, it's the equivalent of saying everyone who fails the driving test is a dangerous driver, or everyone who doesn't get the points for medicine is a 'thicko'

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769025#Comment_121769025

I'm sure some are coming through IP because our economy looks so attractive.

But I've heard of several lower paid visa migrants who've turned around and left because they couldn't afford rent etc.

Maybe we should try get the message out there that things aren't as rosy as they look here. From outside it must be hard to believe that 'Ireland is full' given how strong our economy looks and that we're actively seeking out visa migrants.

Maybe a bit of honesty with people, rather than hatred?

#OurEconomysAllHype #DoYourKidsLikeCouchSurfing #NoCountryForPoorPeople #YoullBeHomelessInOldAge #LeftToDieOnTrolleys

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768141#Comment_121768141

Fair play for apologizing but where did you get the information it wasn't a busy hotel ? An interviewee on Newstalk this morning said it had an average occupancy of 90% and would obviously have hosted a lot of functions, debs, 21st, weddings etc. Should the owners not have to apply for planning permission for a change of use given its now going to be quite a different business?

Sunny Disposition

There's so much ideologically motivated nonsense posted about direct provision.

Again, it's very clear that if hotels that were used for tourism start accommodating international protection applicants instead there is going to be an economic loss to the area around those hotels. Anyone with an ounce of sense can understand this.

Of course you can argue with some validity that it's still the right thing to do despite the economic impact, but to pretend there isn't an economic impact is going to weaken your own argument.

I believe that using hotels to accommodate the Ukrainian arrivals since 2022 was the right thing to do, really I couldn't see another option. But that was an emergency response, two years on it's time to move past that and deliver long term solutions. Maybe our Government will surprise us with an innovative, effective response...

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769763#Comment_121769763

Who said anything immigrants? Come back when you can debate properly.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121770292#Comment_121770292

Ah my apologies, you just have a generalized dislike of IPAs? Or those IPAs that don't meet the criteria?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768714#Comment_121768714

What is this to demonstrate?

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766583#Comment_121766583

You see Hoek van Holland is a well run port security wise, it is like a fortress, whereas Calais is not, it's getting extremely hard to get drivers for the Calais run with the thousands of migrants hiding out around Calais waiting to jump a truck or get into a container, not worth the hassle anymore so maybe the Calais and other French port authorities could learn from the Dutch on how to maintain port security seeing as northern france is where many of the migrants originate from , can you understand now?? Gobbledegook about building walls makes no sense

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768697#Comment_121768697

Like many on here, you are getting confused between the concepts of what I think should happen versus me explaining what does happen and why it happens.

I can't be any clearer: I think if someone arrives in Ireland and it's more or less clear that they have destroyed their documents and they do not have a compelling case for asylum — they should not be allowed entry and should be removed from the State. All I have said is that, in practice, this can be difficult to achieve for a variety of reasons.

So the 'solution' lies in figuring out what those practical issues are and how you mitigate them. For example, why are re-assignments of asylum seekers to other safe EU countries they travelled through often rejected by the other country? Because often the person seeking asylum will have come through somewhere like Greece or Italy who, being overwhelmed with crossings will simply not accept having people batted back at them. So something has to be done to incentivise that.

Beyond that, at the EU level we need to think about how we actually secure the very complex borders (far more complex than the US, Australia and Japan) around the bloc which I believe can't be achieved through mere physical security alone. We have to incentivise certain countries to work with us, and provide a mutually beneficial framework through which they work with us to prevent crossings and accept deportees.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769833#Comment_121769833

Look it was a combination of things as well as people I know saying no issues getting accom there for weddings, debs and festivals..

I accept what you say and thanks but am annoyed with myself as I usually do check everything I write is correct.

But sure we are all human.

Btw I won't be talking about hotels in Drogheda again 😁

GetupyeaBowsie

My opinion regarding this thread -

Discussing the issues/challenges and break down of policies which are contributing to the huge influx of immigration, failed asylum seekers -

• Stating the facts of issues with housing/health/education/policing/expenditure pressures, Government mentioned.
• Hotels been taking off the market hence knock-on to tourism and local facilitates taken away from local population.
• Government have admitted, 60% (mostly) of people arriving are so for economically reasons.
• Many links to center/ left sources to back this up.

Stating the above, with some posters here asking a million questions for proof. When presented the proof(or good point/reply) the following happens -

• Emotional attacks/blackmail or accusations like "You just dislike IPA" "You sound like you're suggesting the arson attacks are justified" "So you want to discriminate all migrants then, Cool. How many hospitals will we shut down?" "If they are working here they are doing more good than an unemployed irish lad".
• Deflecting , "Maybe a wall around the island a few miles offshore? Build that wall!Build that wall! Build that wall!" " "If the airports are secured, sure they'll come in through the port anyways..." "Remember the pandemic? The far right was an essential part of the conspiracy theory crowd. Endless fear mongering"
• Name calling , "Far-right" , " Fearmongering " , "Ill-informed " "I know where your clear motives are coming from " "That’s what this thread has become a big load of bigoted nonsense,I gave the right wing bigoted snowflakes a taste of their own medicine."

It's near rinse and repeat, it derails thread on purpose. We have a major issue with asylum seekers arriving here, some posters here have completely closed the argument with the tactics above. The government admits about the pressures/issues around immigration and still some posters will continue to deflect, name call and emotional blackmail people here.

This is unsustainable, we've taken in over a million people legally (Asylum, Economical, IP etc) the last ten years. Some people are hellbent on more and see no problems with our current immigration polices, imo and hopefully other's that it's completely irresponsible, reckless and naive.

Same issues are happening EU wide, completely agree. IMO the EU couldn't give 2 fiddlers and are sitting on their hands while our government is not using our get out clause from the Lisbon treaty like Denmark is. People will vote more right, seen this with normal SF voters switching to the right.

Anyways that's my observation, no issue with controlled immigration, we'll always need people/skills etc to come into our country. Just get the border under control!

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121770984#Comment_121770984

90%+ of immigrants to the country are 'legal' and here to work and study etc - the whole refugee and asylum seeker thing is a much smaller phenomenon. Walk down any street or take a bus or whatever and the vast majority of non nationals you will see there are here legally and in full time employment. There is a danger that the refugee angle is being very much overstated.

GetupyeaBowsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771131#Comment_121771131

I know they are Legally here, which I meant in the million we've taken in. "the vast majority of non nationals you will see there are here legally" I never said they were illegal?? I never said non nationals ??

"There is a danger that the whole refugee angle is being very much overstated" in your opinion. I completely disagree with that and so does the government with pressure on services.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771163#Comment_121771163

"Taken in" is a slightly odd way of describing people moving here for work or study of their own accord. Dublin doesn't "take in" people from rural Ireland, does it?

Sunny Disposition

Across the border, they turn water into wine

Some say it's the devil's blood

They're squeezing from the vine

Some say it's a saviour

In these hard and desperate times

You see, it helps me to forget

That we're just born to die

I came here like so many did

To find the better life

To find my piece of easy street

To finally be alive

And I knew nothing good comes easy

All good things take some time

I made my bed, I'll lie in it

To die in it's the crime

You can't help but prosper

Where the streets are paved with gold

They say the oil wells ran deeper here

Than anybody's known

Now I packed up on my wife and kid

And left them both back at home

See, there's nothing in this pay dirt

The ghosts are all I know

Now the oil's gone

And the money's gone

All the jobs are gone

Still we're hangin' on

GetupyeaBowsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771771#Comment_121771771

Deflect, interrogate and twist my words. "Slightly odd way of describing people" "Taken in" I couldn't care how you interoperate my wording, you will always find something sinister from my wording. "Arrived" "immigrated" "taken refugee" "moved" I'll use these words from now so it won't look "odd" to you.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121770487#Comment_121770487

Yeah the fortress approach hasn't worked elsewhere, why would it work here?

Turn Calais into a fortress, and people will just come via traffickers in smaller craft, the UK, or board trucks earlier.

I fear the more you try hard control of borders, the more people will turn to traffickers, which just means human misery and cheap labour for crime gangs.

GetupyeaBowsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771858#Comment_121771858

"we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas"

gw80

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771858#Comment_121771858

Works in North Korea when keeping people in.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771942#Comment_121771942

North Korea's pretty much isolated in every other sense from the rest of the world.

You want to go that route?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771898#Comment_121771898

I thought my idea about being honest with people about what they'll actually face here had some merit.

#OurEconomyIsAllHype #DoYourKidsLikeCouchSurfing #NoCountryForPoorPeople #YoullBeHomelessInOldAge #LeftToDieOnTrolleys

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771858#Comment_121771858

An amnesty for all in direct provision coz covid was tough on em.

Tweets from minister responsible for asylum seekers that he hoped to provide them all with keys to their own pad within 4 months.

An amnesty for illegals here coz paddy was looking for an amnesty for ours in America. Still looking btw!

I wouldn't exactly call Ireland policies to date fortress like! Child like would be more apt.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121772006#Comment_121772006

I did say it hasn't worked elsewhere.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121771131#Comment_121771131

This is 100% true.

I have been consistently pointing out, for maybe 15 years, that most AS are making bogus claims.

140,000 AS have made application here over last twenty years.

But the number of *legal* immigrants is much higher:

(1) EU citizens

(2) non-EU on work and student visas

(3) programmes refugees

Sunny Disposition

https://www.thejournal.ie/direct-provision-should-end-by-2023-and-be-replaced-with-state-owned-accommodation-centres-report-says-5238573-Oct2020/

When you see who was working on policy and who they consulted it's perhaps not very surprising that the system ended up functioning in the way it does. They don't seem to have focused very much on discouraging the 60% who don't meet the criteria from coming.

In all seriousness this is a fcking joke of a country where lobby groups get priority far too often. The interests of the humble taxpayer are way down the agenda.

1800_Ladladlad

Iv been thinking of and have questions about the upcoming family referendum next month and how it will make the immigration situation worse and have a disastrous and destructive impact on the country. The problem is with the ’Any Durable relationship' Neale Richmond (Fine Gael) openly admitted on Virgin media the government's desired change for the definition of family in the constitution to 'any durable relationship' is in part aimed at expanding the eligibility scope for family reunification applications for immigrants. He said: “This has serious consequences, particularly when we think of immigration law and proving that someone is a family member...or family reunification. This will allow that to be accommodated as well." Note, that Richmond also signed off on the largest-ever expansion of Ireland's Work Permits system, with 43 additional occupations becoming eligible for Work Permits. So far this year over 31,000 workers from outside the EU have been issued permits, stating “these workers add so much to our society & are very welcome!”.....I don't recall my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents on both my paternal and maternal side etc voting for any of this.

Regarding Polygamy, O’Gorman insisted that polygamous relationships and "throuples" won’t be recognized under the proposed changes to the Constitution, yet Pascal Donohoe stated, “No Government can’t give a guarantee to how the Courts will interpret the Constitution…”, Simon Harris echoed this statement. I don't doubt that this referendum will leave us open to the possibility that the courts could recognize relationships based on polygamy under ‘any durable relationships’ which would result in Muslim migrants bringing their multiple wives and their families to the country. Thijnk about how much that would cost the taxpayer.

In Germany for example, surveys were conducted in 2021 among refugees between 2016 and 2019, Die Welt reported. after five years 56% of female refugees were not looking for work which was attributed to 44% of refugee women having children. Immigrant women have more children than the average German woman, at a rate of 2 versus 1.5, and the lower their education, the more children they have. The Federal Institute for Population Research

Women from Muslim countries large families with many children are more common. In the 1st generation, 1/2 half of the Muslim women in Germany have three or more children. The higher the number of children women have, the more difficult to enter the labor market, they usually lack the necessary qualifications. This, of course, means an increased burden on the German social system.

If I were to go by Donohoe's and Simon Harris response, polygamous relationships DO fall in to 'families that reflect diversity' view and will allow for all sorts under the undefined "any durable relationships" to be applied

Regarding family reunification: We currently have over 100,000 asylum seekers and refugees in Ireland. The average number of applications for family reunification is 12 or more, based on “any durable relationships” It doesn’t take a mathematical genius to predict a problem here. Paul Murphy could do that math without using his fingers. Back in 2017 (Nov 8th), the then Minister for State David Stanton said some "family reunification" applications were for up to 70 people! If the government passes this amendment, it could increase immigration numbers by 12 people per family member and to think Stanton said 70 people.... Family reunification is chain migration, and when you consider the data above from Germany, it will dstroy Ireland financially, culturally, and demographically.

It's all being left to interpretation just like ‘hate’ in the hate crime legislation. I can see right through it all. Ill be voting no partially because of what I outlined above.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121772084#Comment_121772084

Where are you getting that most are making bogus claims?

1800_Ladladlad

McDowell seems to be the only person representing the majority of people. Gript media asked Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, the Green Party and the government press office for an interview of similar length with a representative of their choice to articulate the 'Yes' side in the interest of balance. No reply yet, but that offer remains.

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1758112786037514455

Full interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R7_awvtrCk

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121772129#Comment_121772129

Remind me why we voted his party into oblivion again?