Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978906#Comment_120978906

No, it's the actual number of Irish emigrants who returned home for good : the CSO have access to all the figures.

But the point would be that you would hardly see large numbers of people (both non nationals and returning emigrants) moving to a country that was already seriously overpopulated - it would be a place to avoid.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978930#Comment_120978930

At one stage we were seeing 20,000 + per year arriving from Nigeria alone

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978930#Comment_120978930

No, it increased exponentially!

I’m not conflating it at all, this whole tangent started from your introduction of the referendum on immigration in Poland, so the referendum we had on citizenship and the effect it had on immigration was relevant. All the fears and prejudices of what you referred to earlier as ‘anchor babies’ didn’t stop immigration to Ireland, it had no impact whatsoever. What had the greatest impact was our economy booming as a result of increased immigrant labour, and then recently there was the amnesty and a pathway for immigrants who were here illegally to become citizens.

Ironically enough the towns which saw the greatest increase in population growth were towns where Eastern European immigrants had settled and started families.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978966#Comment_120978966

What year was that? The number of 20000 per year does not seem correct. In 2016 there was less than 10000 in total in the country.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

hotmail.com

Ballybrack accom set on fire tonight. Videos online.

Once again, the feral scumbags behaving with complete impunity in this country.

hotmail.com

One of the concerns is whether or not immigrants seek to integrate into society. Obviously this is going to be difficult for first generation immigrants, particularly if English isn't their first language.

But surely their children and in particular their grandchildren should have integrated into society and adopt Western ways.

This hasn't happened in England, France, Holland and so on, among certain ethnic groups. This is going to happen here.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979086#Comment_120979086

I wonder is it possible Gatling might have been referring to the figures for Nigerians who left Nigeria in 2022? Seems to correspond to the 20,000 figure at least. Ireland’s well down list on all metrics though:

https://www.worlddata.info/africa/nigeria/asylum.php

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979120#Comment_120979120

Can you clarify what’s going to happen here? Third generation migrants will or won’t integrate?

Sorry, just not clear what you are asserting.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979145#Comment_120979145

Certain ethnic groups retain large parts of their cultural identity despite being 3rd generation immigrants.

Why is it this the case when most immigrants encourage their children and grandchildren to assimilate rather than hold a different cultural identity ( different from the host country).

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979193#Comment_120979193

Got it. Yes, I would agree having experienced it first hand when living abroad.

I recall local colleagues telling me about third generation migrants who didn’t really speak the local language. I naively assumed it was rubbish until I moved to an apartment in a heavily immigrant (more than 90%) district in the outer suburbs.

Living there for a few years, I truly started to appreciate the concept of parallel societies. It’s not a desirable outcome for any country.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979221#Comment_120979221

This is what turns people off wanting or accepting certain immigrants. Irish people have seen what has happened in other European countries.

These ethnic groups aren't advised to assimilate - the attitude is live and let live - we're a tolerant, polite people and just hope that they will integrate at some point. But so many of them stubbornly hold onto their different culture.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979193#Comment_120979193

Do most immigrants encourage their children and grandchildren to assimilate and adopt a different cultural identity rather than hold onto their own cultural identity? I don’t think they do, as evidenced in a country like the US which was practically founded by immigrants from all different cultures, which to this day maintain their own cultural identity.

It’s why Spanish for example is the second most commonly spoken language after English, and there’s good explanation for why English is the most commonly spoken language - not because immigrants were encouraged to assimilate by their parents and grandparents, but because they were forced to adopt English as a language.

The same is true of the descendants of Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, Chinese immigrants, Indian immigrants, etc, apart from all the other people descended from the immigrants of other European countries.

Even in a country as tiny as Ireland there are differences between cultural identities among different groups of people, so where you’re going with the idea that anyone encourages foregoing their own cultural identity and assimilating into another, I really don’t know.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979261#Comment_120979261

Well I draw my comparisons with European countries, not with America which has 350 million people.

People from a European background share many common cultural connections and that's why integration is easier and almost seemless by the 3rd generation - but Middle Eastern and Indian Sub continent have a very different culture to Western Europe.

Why are certain groups from these ethnic groups not better at integrating by the 3rd generation? Why for example are 3rd or even 4th by now generation Muslim women still wearing the veils given that they are not a cultural feature of women in Western Europe.

I note that the Indian community is much better at integrating in England and consequently have higher income levels than the English white community. Integration has an economic benefit.

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979108#Comment_120979108

was that accom planned for asylum seekers?

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979235#Comment_120979235

Indeed. Unfortunately, this is evident right across Western Europe. Large swathes of cities become almost exclusively populated by people from a particular cultural background. Places like Saint Denis, Neu Koeln, Molenbeek, Rosengaard, Rinkeby etc, etc are all symptomatic of this tendency.

Will Ireland avoid a similar fate? I very much doubt it.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979309#Comment_120979309

Yep. An arson attack.

It'll be on the news agenda tomorrow.

Fox Tail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979339#Comment_120979339

Ok. Do we know how many it was due to accomodate?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979290#Comment_120979290

You’re selective then in picking and choosing societies which you think suit your narrative so, when in reality they still don’t, which is why I pointed to the example of a tiny country like Ireland and the fact that there are many generations of groups of people in Irish society who haven’t adopted other cultures ideas even though they share the same land mass. There isn’t even a common language across the European land mass with most European countries maintaining their own language that is not English.

Middle Eastern and Indian sub-continental cultures aren’t any different from an entity such as Western Europe! You’re talking about millions of people across three different continents. There’s similarities and there are differences, like there are similarities and differences between North and South India, and as for your noticing that the Indian community in England has higher income levels than the English white community, I don’t know what you’re basing that on, but it’s not true:

The income poverty rate varies substantially between ethnic groups: Bangladeshis(65%), Pakistanis (55%) and black Africans (45%) have the highest rates; black Caribbeans (30%), Indians (25%), white Other (25%) and white British (20%) have the lowest rates.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/migrated/files/2057.pdf

Muslim women wearing veils still wear them because they’re Muslim. That should be obvious. It’s no different than Catholics wearing the crucifix, or anti-theists pissing everyone off equally with their attempts to enforce their will on other people who do not share their lack of belief.

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979108#Comment_120979108

Only a few weeks ago there was an online video where the builders doing work on the house were approached and warned " about housing refugees there " and windows broken and now gets set on fire.

Whoever done it lets hope they are caught; expressing opinions for or against Immigration is fine and ok but when actions occur such as reckless vandalism is inexcusable .

charlie_says

Was there a fire cert for the building in Ballybrack where the fire was?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978421#Comment_120978421

Fergus Finlay, possibly Irelands smuggest man

realdanbreen

Just to be clear, I couldn't care less whether you show a little humanity/compassion or not ,it's entirely up to yourself. It's where posters urge others to also be mean spirited dicks that I have a problem with.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979396#Comment_120979396

Just Google income levels in the UK. Indian and white English have the highest income levels. Their current Prime Minister is from Indian heritage.

As for the veil and the Hijab, these are cultural outfits worn in the Middle East and Pakistan/Afghanistan. They are not worn by women in the West. You'd think for the sake of integration and assimilation that Muslim women would ditch the outfit. By the way, a lot of Muslim don't wear a veil.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979972#Comment_120979972

I didn’t need to Google income levels in the UK. I knew already that rates of poverty among the ethnically Indian population in the UK were much greater than that of the ethnically British population in the UK, but you specifically mentioned England, so I restricted my response specifically to England, where the point still stands. You’re having a laugh if you think presenting Rishi Sunak as representative of the ethnically Indian population in England! 😂

As for the veil and the hijab, I didn’t feel the need to be needlessly petty about it because I knew what you meant, and the point still stands - you asked why Muslim women wear the veil, the answer was obvious - because they’re Muslim. As for your point that women in the West don’t wear the veil, the reason there is obvious too - most Western women aren’t Muslim. I wouldn’t think for the sake of integration and assimilation that Muslim women would ditch the outfit, certainly my sister didn’t when she reverted to Islam to marry a Muslim. They live in Scotland though, not England.

I’m also well aware that there are some Muslim women who don’t wear the veil, but I wouldn’t say it’s a lot. It’s simply a fact that most of them do, and there are Muslims in Western countries who aren’t immigrants. They’re not who we were talking about though. I’m not sure why you’d think that Muslim immigrant women from the Middle East, Pakistan and Afghanistan would ditch the veil in the interests of assimilation and integration when it’s part of their culture, it just doesn’t make any sense outside of your own ideas about what you think are acceptable Western cultural norms according to your own standards.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980065#Comment_120980065

I would think it better for immigrants to assimilate as much as possible, particularly by the 3rd generation. Simple as that.

Edit: on the Indian income:

https://m.economictimes.com/nri/nris-in-news/indians-are-high-earners-in-uk-study/articleshow/70148459.cms

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980065#Comment_120980065

whats your overall position, are you indifferent whether large numbers of immigrants come from the EU which for me would be mostly positive or a similar number from islamic/3rd world countries which clearly affect the host society in negative ways and which create new or exacerbate societal problems.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980185#Comment_120980185

I understood that much already, it’s no different than anyone else who imagines everyone else should conform to their standards. It’s completely detached from reality though where the reason people don’t assimilate into other cultures is because they don’t need to, there’s nothing that culture offers them. They prefer to maintain their own culture, most people do, and that’s passed down from one generation to the next, regardless of what country they’re situated in. It’s why new immigrants seek to be around people who already share their cultural heritage in their new country.

There’s a small number of Indian immigrants in Ireland for example, most of them Hindu, some Muslim, and they maintain their own cultural identity, very few interested in being involved in Irish culture and traditions like GAA and all the rest of it.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979235#Comment_120979235

Stubbornly hold onto their own culture?

Shock horror, imagine that, a culture wanting to hold into their own culture. It's terrible isn't it.

Why shouldn't they hold onto it? Surely that's what everyone wants, that's all I hear on here about how we're going to lose our Irish culture, even though we have brought it with us to every country and continue to do so.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980235#Comment_120980235

Ireland is new to immigration. I've already said first generation are not going to integrate fully. I'm talking about 3rd and 4th generation in England, France etc who still haven't fully integrated.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980267#Comment_120980267

No idea where you're talking about. When the Irish went abroad they integrated by the 3rd generation.

You would have no idea a person in Birmingham was 3rd/4th generation Irish.