Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034222#Comment_121034222

...and once again, the bigger part of the story has been the financialisation of our economy, but why am i even bothering, you re never gonna accept this reality, even when all the facts and data are presented to you, again, it has very little to do with our rising population, and more so to do with this reality.....

...and again, our property issues started well before the 2014 point on your graph, property shortages, particularly in the dublin region, were in fact realised at the height of the 08 crash, and the last time i looked, that was before 2014!

...and again, construction numbers have since collapsed, i.e. virtually nothing to do with population numbers!

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034273#Comment_121034273

You cannot inflate, or indeed finincialise without pressure.

That pressure is demand.

That demand cannot be homegrown.

That demand must be imported.

That demand is overpopulation.

THAT is the bigger picture.

As to other property problems before 2014, yes, they were there.

And again, those factors are entirely dwarfed by massive population increase.

And if THAT isn't enough, how do you explain the overcapacity of literally everything else besides housing? Coincidence?

Come on.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034333#Comment_121034333

...hahaha, yes you can, just simply push even more credit into an economy, and hey presto.....this is exactly what happened post 08 crash, via the shadow banking sectors, i.e. pension and investment funds, as they have been playing a much bigger role in irelands property markets since the crash, i.e. they took on even more debt/credit, this was made easier via central bank qe programs....

...we ve been through this already, but here goes again, at the height of the previous boom we were building 90,000 units per year, this significantly crashed since, to the point, we re now struggling to make it to 30,000 units, but the fact is, we needed a significantly higher output in order to keep up with demand, it never happened, so now we re in a significant deficit in supply, possible as much as 250,000 units...

...another element of these modern political and economic ideologies is to reduce state involvement in providing critical needs such as housing, health care, and other critical needs, and to encourage and to facilitate more market based approaches, only problem is, these entities priorities are ultimately to maximize financial outcomes, i.e. profits, share holder value(share prices) etc etc, and not to actually help provide these critical needs, i.e. everything is over capacity due to these ideologies and their accompanying polices, i.e. its working perfectly...

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034383#Comment_121034383

I agree with everything you're saying.

But I'm stating that overpopulation simply dwarfs all those other factors.

If you're talking about underhand incentivisation, tell me a quicker way to increase demand than dropping a load more people into the situation.

This financialisation you mention does not carry over to everything else, however, like hospitals and lack of staff etc. For the most part, houses are houses, hospitals are hospitals. They don't disappear or reach an expiry, so to speak. There was a point when there was "enough", and that point was crossed when the government decided it was a brilliant move to bring in more and more people. Bear in mind, they do this every single year without fail. Every single year of this housing crisis, healthcare crisis, the government has allowed many more people in than construction or capacity would dictate.

Very strange. Or not, depending on point of view.

As to a finger in the wind on overpopulation, they are going to start putting all these extra people on floating barges. The hotel situation. Adults being forced back in with parents in growing number. The closing of and repurposing of other facilities to get in on the overpopulation coinage. The list is very long.

If your uncle Bobby moved into your house and he had to sleep suspended out of a first floor window in a sheet, take the hint: the house is too small for uncle Bobby to be living there.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033895#Comment_121033895

So when did we reach capacity then, in your mind? And why do you think that?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034948#Comment_121034948

Very difficult to pinpoint.

2013/2014 when the government essentially got rid of bedsits. Also when the rise in migrant population really took after the recession.

I'm sure if one were to compare each year after that, home builds versus net migration, it's probably about that time that capacity was being stripped.

It would require a lot of research to determine just for housing, but add in healthcare and schools and prisons and so on, its a lot to do.

But I don't really need to pinpoint when overpopulation began. The salient point is that we are overpopulated now.

Similar to taking about when a house fire may have begun, the main point is that the house is on fire now.

A question for you.

What, in theory, would be the hallmark of overpopulation to you? What would be the metric or state of affairs that would make you say "actually, that means we're overpopulated, no doubt"?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035105#Comment_121035105

What about the years 1997-2007?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035116#Comment_121035116

Different set of circumstances, reckless lending led to hyperinflation on credit. Basically. And that was just housing.

So what would be the hallmark, or set of hallmarks, of overpopulation to you, in theory?

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035105#Comment_121035105

We had an unemployment rate of 13.9% in 2013, how were you going to "restructure" the economy to solve this exactly ?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035133#Comment_121035133

It's not my job to give step by step instructions on how to build a sustainable economy.

Similarly I cannot build a car.

But I certainly can point out when a car is knackered. Ditto for an economy that evidently doesn't work.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034383#Comment_121034383

I think you are partly correct here but only partly. Yes, a lot of credit has been dumped into the economy and this has pushed up asset prices including property. However this has not caused the lack of supply that we're seeing. We actually need investment from pension and other funds more than ever in order to increase supply especially given the influx of migrants in recent years yet paradoxically they are blamed for lack of supply. The government will never be able to fund and build the needed number of units.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035142#Comment_121035142

yeah, yeah..."overpopulation"..."overpopulation"..."overpopulation" - that's all you got.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035180#Comment_121035180

I've posted articles, statistics, reports, I've made logical and well explained connections between the numerous problems at large and overpopulation.

What have you got?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035130#Comment_121035130

But But But we had massive immigration in those years.......surely you must think we were overpopulated then......

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035194#Comment_121035194

apart from your reference to junior cert geography and two graphs showing population increase/house price rises.....I can't see any actual proof of overpopulation

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035219#Comment_121035219

Absolutely a contributing factor. Yes. But shorthand, not the primary reason.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035194#Comment_121035194

You stated that the economy needed to be restructured in 2013, then you admitted that you haven't a bulls notion about how our economy actually works.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035228#Comment_121035228

Well the great thing is that you can go back and find all the rest. Its free.

Now, I've done you the decency of answering your questions. Now will you answer mine?

What, in theory, would spell out "overpopulation" to you? What issues or events or metrics?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035239#Comment_121035239

That's great.

How's the price of milk these days, while we're at it?

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035253#Comment_121035253

About 1.05 euro a litre, depends on where you shop.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035267#Comment_121035267

Good to know.

What would overpopulation look like to you?

What would be the thing/things that would make you believe we're overpopulated?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035232#Comment_121035232

But immigration into Ireland was at its highest in 2006-2008, so what was different then, that means we were not overpopulated?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035278#Comment_121035278

A smaller population. Not overpopulated. We have a record high population level today.

So, 4th time asking you a simple question.

What, in theory, would spell out overpopulation to you?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035343#Comment_121035343

You keep telling us how government importing large amounts of people is the issue

However nothing else, absolutely nothing, comes close to the impact of rapid population importation. It stands head and shoulders above all other factors.

so,again I'll ask you, what was the difference in 2006-2008? Why were we not overpopulated then? Given that was the highest immigration into the country?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035409#Comment_121035409

Listen now, I've done you the decency of answering your questions again and again and again.

You have ignored answering my single question to you again and again and again.

What's the story?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035423#Comment_121035423

Because you haven't answered the question

If rapid government invited immigration is the problem, then why were we not overpopulated in 2006-2008, when we had the highest immigration into the country?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035447#Comment_121035447

I did answer the question.

The population was literally smaller than the record high population today.

Not only have I answered that particular question, I've answered a range of questions from you.

So, are you physically able to type out an answer to my question or what?

hymenelectra

Well, there's a few people that are surely great at pointing out that we don't have overpopulation without a shred of backup.

It's funny how they all disappear when you ask them what overpopulation would look like to them in theory.

And here's why: nearly anything they care to mention beyond pollution can be readily pointed to as happening right now.

And that's why there isn't an answer forthcoming.

Here's one from me. When there's so many extra people in the country that they're about to start loading them on barges, that indicates overpopulation.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121035457#Comment_121035457

But what about your assertions that government invited immigration means we are living in a pyramid scheme?

Population in 2008 was approx 4.5 million, now in 2023 it is approx 5.1 million. You are claiming that those 600,000 people in 15 years is somehow the straw that broke the camels back.

In 2002 the population was approx 3.9 million, so in 6 years it grew by 600,000 people, but it wasn't overpopulated then?

suvigirl

The population has been rising since after the famine, slowly for decades now quicker.

Let's just look at the last 25 years, population every year has been at a record high. Why is this year different?