Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063081#Comment_121063081

White Irish people only? What about Irish people of different colours? Or do you believe that Irish people must only be white?

Have to laugh at posters pushing this rubbish, populations integrate over time, Irish people can never be a minority. There are millions of people worldwide that are of Irish descent.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063158#Comment_121063158

How completely OTT and ridiculous.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063256#Comment_121063256

They put it out there..

But some how I'm wrong 😂

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063187#Comment_121063187

You're the one that posted this absolute shite...it doesn't even make sense.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063255#Comment_121063255

This is not America. One can become American. It's one of their founding cultural principles(though more recently it came with a hyphen). Other cultures that practiced similar, though oft at the point of a sword, were empires. People could become Roman, Chinese, British, French. Even there the 'natives' tended to get more of a nod. Ireland fits in neither camp.

Outside of the above the notion that one could magically become [insert nationhood here] is a far more recent development. Much of it as a sop to paper over the cracks and failures of melting pots around the world. Ironically much of it from the US as part of the civil rights movements that clearly understood native born African Americans weren't so nearly accepted as proper Americans. Even paler faced newly minted and migrated American citizens were more accepted.

This far more recent development also has another twist; it's exclusively aimed at White "European" nations and cultures. If 100,000 say White Norwegians moved to Kenya, or to Jordan over the last 20 years and one were to suggest they're now fully Kenyan or Jordanian, that would at best lead to a quizzical response, more likely a more negative response. It does seem this 'multiculturalism' is remarkably in one direction.

And yes for the vast majority of Irish history going back to the egg, Irish people weren't "different colours", they were pale Europeans. Even in the last hundred years pre the mid 1990s a gathering of "Irish people of different colours" would be hard pressed fill a small rural pub.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063393#Comment_121063393

It doesn't matter what colour the Irish were generations ago, now our more recent arrivals integrate with our population, creating Irish people of varying colours. Which will only become more common as the younger generation grow up.

Populations and societies change, and there is nothing wrong with that, the majority of people are welcoming of our new modern Ireland.

I'm not sure if a failure to recognise that not all Irish people are white is ignorance or just said in malice

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063126#Comment_121063126

I asked if people working and contributing should be treated as second class citizens, you think they shouldn't be here at all.

Another one to add to your admitted far right anti immigration stand.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063514#Comment_121063514

Not all Irish are white , just the majority of us

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063196#Comment_121063196

Include replacing yourself 🤣🤣

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063349#Comment_121063349

It makes perfect sense,

Why would anyone who's Irish claim to be happy if we are reduced to a minority in our own country

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063532#Comment_121063532

How am I going to be replaced then?

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063033#Comment_121063033

So I give a detailed answer about why there should absolutely be discussions about various cultures and how they interact, and you ignore all of that; all you can say by reply is "This is the kind of crap the National Party would come out with".

No attempt to even construct a cogent argument; just try dismiss someone as fear-mongering.

I find that very sad.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063577#Comment_121063577

I find xenophobia sad.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063526#Comment_121063526

So?

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063601#Comment_121063601

No xenophobia in my post at all.

In fact, I'm the one arguing for a situation which would allow foreign economies - and by definition, foreign people - to grow and attain equality rather than always be help back by wealthier countries who are happy to see their human capital in the same way colonialists of old saw mineral and material capital.

That's about as far from xenophobia as you can get.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063532#Comment_121063532

This is one of the most ridiculous statements anti immigration posters come out with, it has been taken directly from the likes of Ireland First and the National party. Just like the 'ireland for the irish' slogan.

If perhaps 4 million people arrived in the country tomorrow, there may be a chance that Irish people would be a minority, other than that, completely unlikely scenario, then it's not going to happen.

Populations for centuries have integrated and taken on the nationality of their new country. Irish people have done it for generations.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063718#Comment_121063718

You're using far-right rhetoric and pretending it's something else.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063532#Comment_121063532

But nobody claimed to be happy if we were reduced to a minority in our own country? You asked the question, but it’s a silly question because it’s not going to happen. No matter what way you happen to quantify being Irish, and it’s pretty clear that Irish citizenship is what actually counts, and none of the ‘blood of the soil nonsense’, Irish people are never going to be a minority in their own country. The auld ‘800 years’ stuff seems to have been replaced by “but what about in another 800 years?” Safe to assume none of us will be around to give a damn.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063514#Comment_121063514

the majority of people are welcoming of our new modern Ireland

Citations please. The "majority of people" quite simply weren't asked. Certainly not at the ballot box. The one time they were around this subject when the jus soli loophole which led to the first influx in the 90's was put to the Irish electorate they voted to close it. Not a single constituency returned a no vote. The political parties, the ones who are the only real choice all sing from the same hymn sheet and vanishingly few would vote for the loony right parties so that's no judge. People have to vote for someone. Early in the current Ukrainian crisis the Irish Times ran a survey about attitudes and half said they would house a Ukrainian refugee, with the caveat if they had the room, the other half wouldn't. And they're White Europeans fleeing a war that's in the daily headlines. The Times wouldn't dare run a similar survey with Africans.

now our more recent arrivals integrate with our population

Yet even this early on we're already seeing the emergence of exact same ghettoisation experienced by other 'multicultural' societies. We're also seeing the same social trends. Who is more likely to be in receipt of social support for example? These are facts, not feelings or opinions and there isn't a single example in western 'multicultural' societies where the exact same facts and trends don't play out and many have 2, 3, 4 generations of experience. Not a one. But apparently Ireland will be the magical outlier.

Populations and societies change, and there is nothing wrong with that

Well that's an idiotic statement, or just a lazy one. It entirely depends on the type of change. The aforementioned Ukraine's population and society is changing and beyond the Kremlin who would call that a positive? All societies have internal issues, but it is easily demonstrable that multicultural ones have extra on top, and different ones too. We have no shortage of examples that the multicultural flag wavers choose to ignore.

I'm not sure if a failure to recognise that not all Irish people are white is ignorance or just said in malice

You can't just erase realities with a passport stamp, or wishful thinking. Look at non European diasporas throughout Europe. With the notable exception of East Asians, it's pretty clear Black and Brown folks in France for example feel not quite as French as the locals. The ghettoisation, 'White Flight', social issues and regular riots and protests tend to give the game away if one happens to want to look of course. The same can be seen in Sweden, Italy, Norway, Holland, Britain and so on. Everywhere this busted flush multiculturalism politic plays out. When the non White [insert nationality here] know and live the realities and know and live thise realities for generations and don't buy what you're selling and are quite vocal about it, good luck in convincing the White [insert nationality here] of the same thing.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063393#Comment_121063393

There is a fairly decently sized and growing population of people born in Ireland (and Europe) who have one or two parents of a different nationality when they came here, who are now growing up within Irish (or whatever Euro country) culture and are as Irish as you or me. That's a big problem for the far right types because those home grown Irish people are not seen as anything other than Irish by the vast majority of the population and they are not going anywhere. Anyone who grows up here, goes through the school system and so on can't be anything other than Irish. I've seen some far right nonsense telling them to "go home" but they are home, many have probably never been to the country their parent/parents are from. I've met a fair few of these types of people and I can't imagine how anyone would think they weren't Irish because of "culture" or whatever term they are using to hide behind instead of being the overt racists that they are. When you hear the Irish accent you realise you're part of the same culture essentially and I would have more in common with a lad whose parents are African/Middle Eastern/whatever who has grown up in Ireland than I would with a WHITE lad in *pick your euro country* who has limited/no English and has never set foot in Ireland. Now imagine that the majority of people think like me.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063514#Comment_121063514

Your new modern Ireland is a complete mess.

Unvetted economic migrants arriving week after week putting a strain on services already stretched to the limits.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063230#Comment_121063230

the above is basically "great replacement theory"

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060840#Comment_121060840

Everybody 70 up has a medical card unless they can afford to pay for their own medical care ?

interesting… what happens when your money is spent on your medical care , then you might get a medical card and an empty bank account as your reward for paying tax all your life ? Some deal.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063808#Comment_121063808

We did vote for free movement of goods, capital, services, and people in 1992. "Yes" won by over a 2 to 1 majority. We have one anti-immigration political party who put a forward ten candidates in the 2020 general election., whose first preference votes amounted to between 0.49% (224 votes) and 1.74% (983 votes).

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063164#Comment_121063164

My central point here is that it would be very difficult to sell the idea that "it is in your interests that your right to work, study or live abroad is curtailed from now on" to people. Presumably, if countries started introducing such restrictions, there would be an immediate reciprocal element to it i.e. not only do the 'foreigners' get affected but also the citizens of that country which introduced the restrictions would be affected.

And as I said, how could ordinary people be convinced this a good idea? It would amount to "We are removing your personal freedoms, but trust us, it's for your own good and the greater good".

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063732#Comment_121063732

It's always the far right.....

I don't think I know anyone who wants to happily see their own population reduced to a minority.

Come one now ....

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063925#Comment_121063925

"People" from other EU member states. You missed that part. Last time I checked that didn't include Africa or the ME. We also have a get out cause within the EU as far as accepting non EU migrants. We also voted to close the jus soli loophole that led to the first bump in non EU migrants coming here and by a larger (4 to 1)majority.

I also pointed out nobody would vote for the loony parties. Hell, too many Irish voters vote local and too often for the offspring of previous grifter incumbents like it was 8th century clan politics. The main parties don't vary from the script. It's a Hobson's choice. That's the point.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063951#Comment_121063951

Yes there most certainly are people saying that. That Irish social housing should be open to anyone and everyone under the same rules of Irish people.

And it's ridiculous.

And it didn't come to the fore when black and brown people started arriving, it just so happened to coincide with the rise of there being, quoting varadkar, "250,000 homes behind". That the two are intrinsically linked is no magic.

So no, the idea of an Italian family who, by virtue of itself, are not able to afford housing here should then be given housing here, versus an Irish family who don't have anywhere else to go but a hotel or the streets, is, simply put, morally and logically bonkers.

All against the rising backdrop of record homeless month by month by month? Gimme a break.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063827#Comment_121063827

The interesting thing about the history of multiculturalismir within Europe is that it's rarely been the first generation who get disillusioned over their place in the society, it's the second and third. EG in the UK it wasn't the Windrush generation that kicked off the riots in the 70's and since, it was their kids and then their grandkids. It's they who are more likely to see the frailty of the charade about who's really "British". We see the same in France and Germany. The BLM marches that kicked off across Europe didn't fall out of the sky.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063975#Comment_121063975

the people who are "saying that", are they the ones in government who are responsible for setting policy or are they randos who don't?

being behind on house building is a complete failure of policy, not the immigrant or refugee.