Nottingham Attacks

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713443#Comment_120713443

not victim blaming , the question was why does it matter where "he" came from, the state regulates who comes into a country, its their job supposedly to vet people who come to a country and they are in a position to mitigate risk. Comprehension is quite low on this forum apparently

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713565#Comment_120713565

It's the urge to murder, assault, rape etc that we're talking about here. So you're saying it's natural for some men to kill and rape and no point even trying to stop them. Let them at it in case a war comes up?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713580#Comment_120713580

I think you may be talking about yourself there. The question was why is it nearly always men, no matter where they are from.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713580#Comment_120713580

yeah I mean, if you had a choice of going to Tokyo or staying in a Brazilian favela, you really wouldnt have anything to go on except looking up census data to give you a clue as to how many men are there

Thats what you said in relation to

Violent crimes and murders are happening all the time. There's some more focus on some because of where the perpetrators are from but the obvious issue keeps getting ignored. It doesn't matter if the attacker is local, a foreigner, is white, black, Christian, Muslim etc, the attacker is nearly always a man! Why does this never get discussed? Why is it nearly always men? It's clearly a worldwide problem where some men are predisposed to violence. It's such a big issue that seems impossible to find a solution but that's not a reason to ignore it.

I hate to break it to you, but @Musicrules didn’t ask “why does it matter where he came from?”

They asked, “Why does the fact these killers are nearly always men never get discussed?” They even recognise that it’s a world wide problem so it doesn’t matter where the killer comes from.

Comprehension does appear be quite low on this forum indeed.

Snake Plisken

Usual posters will try and twist the narrative at the end of the day it was a migrant with a history of violence, who should have been properly vetted by UK authorities.

The. Same left winger/NGO types tried to blame "All Men" when Ashling Murphy died, sorry but it doesn't work. It is totally heartbreaking to see the van driver going about his day and the two students just out enjoying themselves getting murdered by a migrant who should never have been left into the country.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713675#Comment_120713675

It is heartbreaking. And it's all too common. Murders and assaults are all too common in all societies. It's not just migrants who commit these crimes but it's mostly men. Too many people try to excuse this or even silence discussion on it. Until the issue is tackled, we will continue to have huge numbers of victims like these unfortunate people in Nottingham.

Ashbourne hoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713565#Comment_120713565

That's some take pal, some **** take. Unbelevable

Ashbourne hoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713675#Comment_120713675

Most people will recognise that it's not "all men" or "all immigrants". Ignore the whole left and right nonsense that's amplified by social media, the vast majority of people live in the "middle".

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713675#Comment_120713675

At the end of the day, people were killed by a man with mental illness. That’s it. Whether it was in Britain, or whether it would have happened in his birth country, it’s irrelevant.

He didn’t kill people because he was a migrant. We know he had mental health issues, so the chances are high that he killed people because of his mental health.

I thinks it’s unsurprising that people pooh-pooh the role that mental illness plays in these cases. Do people think murders are routinely committed by people with full control of their mental faculties?

brickster69

UK home secretary just made an official statement. The only definitive information she released was that " counter terrorism units are helping Nottinghamshire police with the investigation but does not mean it is terrorist related "

Nothing about anything else at all basically. Sky news just now has released the first image of the suspect, which backs up exactly what the eyewitness at the scene said on channel 4 news 26 hours ago.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713828#Comment_120713828

Howaya bud. Howsa going’?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713645#Comment_120713645

What do you want done about it? We’re already telling young men that they are despicable pointless disposable creatures for some time now and that doesn’t seem to be working. What do you suggest?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713871#Comment_120713871

What you are looking for is to ignore completely the fact that 3 British citizens going lawfully about their business in Britain were murdered mercilessly by a non British criminal who should not be there, and for all of us instead to concentrate on the fact that the murderer has apparently got mental health issues.

You want to also ignore the fact that the vast majority of people suffering from mental health issues are not inclined to go out at 4am looking for vulnerable people to hunt down and butcher to death.

Way to go to label all poor mental health sufferers as dangerous.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712917#Comment_120712917

You want to know why men exhibit prototypical male traits and behaviours that cause issues at the extremes?

2Greyfoxes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713871#Comment_120713871

One' birth country is far from irrelevant. It is one of the biggest factors in shaping one's cultural identity. So it does matter, where people are from.

Funny how if it was a Mam of European background, ot would be 'Toxic Masculinity' to blame and not 'Mental Health' to blame.

Many people suffer from Mental Health issues, they don't go around doing this, stop throwing people with Mental health issues under the bus. It is disgusting.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713565#Comment_120713565

What a terrible example!

It hasn't worked.

Western aggression has made that particular situation far worse. And also made negotiations much more difficult. So in both the short and longer term, this example of aggression has been a complete disaster.

And if you think there was no other alternative to aggression, you are very deluded.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714021#Comment_120714021

you're throwing people from other countries under the bus, to be fair. lots of mentally ill people do crazy sh*t like this all the time, that's just a fact.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714039#Comment_120714039

It's also a fact that people unconsciously or otherwise, judge crimes committed by members of outgroups differently from those of ingroups.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713990#Comment_120713990

Not in my circle. If you’re hearing that, I suggest you also change your circle. That’s not healthy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714016#Comment_120714016

I’m not ignoring anything. You on the other hand absolutely want to ignore his mental health issues and put it down to him being a migrant, which is unimportant.

True, the vast majority of people suffering mental health issues don’t kill people, however, the vast majority of people who kill people are suffering from mental health issues. Would you argue this?

I didn’t label all poor mental health sufferers as dangerous, you did. I labelled all murderers as people not in control of all their mental health faculties. Do you see that there is a difference there?

Mental health services in this country and the UK are chronically underfunded. Its very sad when cases like this happen, but honestly I’m just surprised there isn’t more of them given the state of help available to people who need it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714021#Comment_120714021

Again, I’m not “throwing people with Mental health issues under the bus”. I’m throwing those that won’t “fund mental health services properly” under the bus if anything.

brickster69

CCTV of the suspected murderer showed he was trying to break into an old peoples home close to where one of the murders happened but was fought off. Sounds like it may of been quite a bit worse.

Seely Hirst House Residential Care Home

https://www.nottshelpyourself.org.uk/kb5/nottinghamshire/directory/service.page?id=G_W4UpM02R8

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714083#Comment_120714083

What you need to do here is stop insisting that the immigrant is the real victim in all this. He’s not. The dead people and their families are the victims. The only victims. He doesn’t need any defending from you.

There’s now footage of him breaking into a residential home and fleeing when he was punched in the face. Old people in a nursing home. An elderly man in his van. Tipsy teenage girl on her way home from a party with her tipsy boyfriend. All undercover of the night.

Gosh. For someone with mental health problems he sure had the presence of mind to carefully pick his victims, didn’t he? Not exactly a random rampage….

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714189#Comment_120714189

Where am I insisting that the immigrant is the real victim? Where? I’m not at all. Obviously the victims are victims, as are their families, friends and their communities. They’re the ones that are left behind to deal with it.

Why are you so disingenuous in your arguments? Why do I have to correct you every time you address me?

It’s not normal, well adjusted behaviour to try to break into an old persons home. It’s just not. I’m not defending him. Im saying it’s not normal, well adjusted behaviour to break into an old persons home in the middle of the night and then go on a killing spree.

Do you think it’s normal, well adjusted behaviour to try to break into an old persons home in the middle of the night and then go on a killing spree?

As for his victims, didn't it happen at 4am or something? How do you know they weren’t the only people he encountered?

2Greyfoxes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714039#Comment_120714039

Some countries have a culture whi h has a rather poor track record when it comes to human rights. Not throwing anyone under the bus, simply pointing out that one's culture is important in shaping their values and world belief.

Yes, Mentally ill people do crazy s**t, that isn't what I was arguing... just howcome that is the default reason/excuse we bring out. What about culture, or may be, just maybe they are scum. I know it is a radical depature from whatnwe hear, but some people are just simply nasty and can not coexist in a peaceful society, regardless of their state of mind, culture, sex, class, etc.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714317#Comment_120714317

well because some people think it's important to look beyond calling people "scum" and leaving it at that. There has to be something seriously wrong with you mentally, if you are capable of certain types of crimes

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713443#Comment_120713443

Well,. maybe improve mental health services, so people (like the perpetrator in Nottingham) are found and helped before incidents like this occur.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120713990#Comment_120713990

Pointless, disposable creatures? What are you talking about?

It's clear that further education on this is needed and a change of attitude in how young men are raised. These are massive questions that I wouldn't have the answers for but I think we all agree that something has to be done to tackle the worldwide issue of male violence.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714020#Comment_120714020

You think murdering, assaulting and raping people are prototypical male traits and behaviours?

brickster69

CCTV shows the suspect trying to get in the care home. Probably just fancied a cup of tea or something or on the lookout for some prozac pills.

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1668971550345945088

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714526#Comment_120714526

After? I thought thought he had tried to get into the care home first?

Doesn’t make much difference anyway. I hope he gets the help he needs AND is put away for a long time.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714592#Comment_120714592

Help? are you serious?