Firefighters striking over pay and conditions

standardg60

Seriously am i missing something here?

Apply to volunteer and then complain about it?

Don't like it? Don't do it.

Jim_Hodge

They are part-time firefighters who are paid an annual retainer to be available for callouts. Maybe inform yourself about the facts.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712097#Comment_120712097

What facts do i need to inform myself about? They signed up to be part-time firefighters in full knowledge of the terms and conditions.

They are not employees, they are volunteers.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058300810/volunteers-striking-over-pay-and-conditions

Just don't complain when there's no firefighters to put the blaze in your house out 👍

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058300810/firefighters-striking-over-pay-and-conditions

Would you prefer to be no fire service in the bulk of the country, then?

Beasty

Thread title amended to identify the workforce in question

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712176#Comment_120712176

They literally have a contract of employment with their respective local authorities. Legally they are employees, not volunteers.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058300810/volunteers-striking-over-pay-and-conditions

Yes you are missing the important facts of the story.

You have it all wrong.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0613/1388806-retained-firefighters-strike/

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058300810/firefighters-striking-over-pay-and-conditions

Hope your house never goes on fire with a disgraceful, entitled and ill-informed attitude like that towards key members of our emergency services.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712228#Comment_120712228

The union said that many firefighters are unable to take their leave entitlements due to staff shortages and have seen their incomes drastically reduced due to reductions in call outs over the last number of years.

So basically there aren't enough fires now to make the job worthwhile, so they should be paid more to do less.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712350#Comment_120712350

Yeah what fireman doesn’t love a good fire , suicide or fatal car crash.

They deserve a lot more than that retainer ,appropriate leave and whatever they get for any call out.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712307#Comment_120712307

The usual emotive reaction. Everyone in the emergency services is of course a gift from God and has no interest in the money they're being paid to do an actual job like everyone else who gets absolutely no credit whatsoever.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712350#Comment_120712350

In your first post you asked if you were missing something.

You've managed to make it very, very clear you are missing more than just one thing here.

This isn't a volunteer situation, it is a part time job with incredible responsibilities.

Are you willing to sign up?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712380#Comment_120712380

No I'm not, I'm busy enough.

Are you naive enough to believe that everyone who has signed up is doing it solely from a philanthropic point of view?

The very fact they're striking means they are not.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712408#Comment_120712408

You appear to want them to all be philanthropic. Either that our your opening argument is a deliberate misstatement and you are trying to cause dissent in your posting.

Which is it?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712408#Comment_120712408

It doesn't matter what their motive is in signing up. Like every worker they should get decent pay and conditions.

kneemos

If they're on call for longer due to staff shortages more pay seems fair.

Presumably they're part of the public service pay agreement?

prunudo

The word volunteer is a get out of jail card for the government not to provide proper services to run and support the population of the country. If is wasn't for volunteers and good will, the country would be in a sorry state. It helps the governments cause to paint the retained fire service as volunteers.

The fact is they're not volunteers at all, it is a full time job that only pays part time wages. There are plenty of restrictions to both your work and personal life. You must live and work in close proximity to the fire station, you must be at the station within a short period of time if the pager goes off, you must attend a certain high precentage of calls outs. You have to deal with hugely traumatic experiences, seeing death and destruction in the course of your work.

To call them volunteers is an insult to everything they do. They should get paid a fair price and if its one of the reasons they can't attract new recruits, then they need to be paid more.

Gregor Samsa

Nobody except the OP claims that they’re volunteers. it’s a position that’s entirely made up in his head

The linked articles don’t call them volunteers, the government don’t call them volunteers, their employers (the County Councils) don’t call them volunteers, their professional union doesn’t call them volunteers, they don’t call themselves volunteers.

They’ve “retained firefighters”. They have an employment contract like any other employee, and they get paid a wage. The only difference to most employees is that their hours are not set.

The OP’s entire argument is in bad faith and based on an entirely incorrect premise.

kneemos

What kind of job allows you to run off at a moment's notice?

Mr. CooL ICE

In my home town, one of the firefighters was a school caretaker. Im sure there are loads of jobs where there'd be an understanding if rhe employee had to go to save lives.

I'm a software engineer on a permanent contract and therefore have core hours. But if i decide to go contracting in the future then depending on the gig, I'd be able to leave at a moment's notice. Not sure I'd have the balls to be a firefighter though.

whisky_galore

Unless you're self employed or have a very understanding local employer who is happy for you to drop everything and run I dont see this part time career as an option for very many people.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712875#Comment_120712875

I used to work with someone who had a very understanding employer

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712888#Comment_120712888

Good for them.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058300810/firefighters-striking-over-pay-and-conditions

Yes, you are missing something. If there is a problem with an understaffed service, as many public services are, then people leaving does not in any way improve things. Firefighters do important work annd they should properly staffed for safety reasons.

As for employers, these businesses would be quick to complain if there was not a prompt response if they had a fire.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712350#Comment_120712350

You are on the right track now.

If you read up a bit more about this matter you will find it's a bit more complicated than you think.

This is an essential service that any of us may need to call on.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712798#Comment_120712798

A County Council job.

In the past, there was a lot of cute hoorism and nepotism around these firefighter positions. They were a way to top up incomes with people employed by the Council and a blind eye turned when they left during work hours to go to a callout, allowing them to effectively get paid on the double.

Most private sector employers would not tolerate this.

The latest figures show that average pay for retained firefighter is 18,000-45,000 per annum (depending on number of callouts) and 7% of retained firefighters main job is with a county council. Sounds like a small number - yet the percentage of the overall workforce that works for county councils is way less than 7%

If the pay for retained firefighters is increased will we see the 7% figure increase? No matter how much retained firefighters are paid, many private sector employers will not tolerate them running off the job - so, should the firefighters be incentivised with higher pay (we are not going to have a full time fire service for the entire country) or should employers be someway incentivised to allow their staff join the retained fire service

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712875#Comment_120712875

You're right, it's not. Which is why having acceptable working conditions is important. It's a vital service that doesn't have an unlimited pool of potential applicants, because not only is the ability to meet the time commitment difficult, but it's very dangerous, physical and can involve anti-social hours.

I know two former retained firefighters. One also worked as a bouncer, the other for a governmental organisation that provided employment support that was itself a part-time position. You don't have to be available 24/7/365 at the drop of a hat. You're rostered in for a call-out schedule, so you can plan the rest of your life around that. You have to be available for a certain level of on-call cover, with a commitment to attend the station within a given number of minutes when paged, and to attend regular training.

Retained firefighters are not unique to Ireland - they're common throughout the world. It's usually only cities that would have full-time firefighters: in Dublin, 12 fire stations are staffed by full-time fire fighters, while 2 are retained. Cork City has 2 full-time and one retained station.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120712408#Comment_120712408

What's philanthropic about running into a building to pull a baby out of a fire? What's philanthropic about cutting down a teenager who's hanged themselves? What's philanthropic about cutting someone's daughter out of a mangled wreckage of a car? What's philanthropic about getting spit on and attacked by people you are trying to help?

Did your wife run away with a fireman?

Cookie_Monster

Any job should allow you to do it, same as Coast Gaurd or Search and Rescue etc. You'd want to have a right **** of an employer for them not to see the benefits. it's not like the have to pay you for the hours you go.

I asked my employer about it (car dealer) and they were super supportive and wanted to put it on social media that they support employees who volunteer in such a manner and all.

The volunteer fire stations in the local are have signs out the front listing all the employers that support thier staff to respond.

kneemos

Rates of pay for retained firefighter s.

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/cork-jobs-rates-pay-duties-24774860